Old 11th August 2001, 15:52   #1
Forevever
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Sorry (a complaint)

Has anyone else noticed how many 4 star skins are in the most recent catagory? One (or more) of the reviewers are giving out 4 and 5 stars for originality and completeness like its penny candy. Then, in reference to the same skin, saying in comments that its missing some buttons and/or avs window, and can they please skin it... (MR J don't ask me for examples, there are too many).

WHY! are they giving out stars like that? Winamp, please, I beg you, come up with a more strict rating system.
More strict, more specific, and NOT SO OPINIONATED.

Thank you for reading my typical rant.

If anyone can find any of the skins I made please email them to Forevever@aol.com
I can't remember all the names but specifically hunting for Lascivious, and DEVOUR (compilation with Jax) and any in the Impulse series which had 6 total. Auriferous, Gilt, Impulse, Nadir, and 2 others I can't remember but you dig.
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Old 11th August 2001, 15:57   #2
Forevever
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here's just one example...
Quote:
originally posted at the below link by the winamp reviewer
Jessy !!! What have you done with my winamp ??? Havn't you read the disclaimer that it is NOT waterresistant ? I can understand that you won't miss it even on the beach, but please DO NOT TAKE IT WITH YOU while you're scuba diving ... to be honest, this one is a very original design and makes a lot of fun - it seems you messed up the numbers a little bit ? could you please fix this - otherwise it's really a great one.

glorfindel
I just hope the reviewer who starts out with "Approved" and ends with "Skin Review Squad" reviews my skins when they get published. They seem to have more of a handle on reality, as far as ratings are concerned. example http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=71528

If anyone can find any of the skins I made please email them to Forevever@aol.com
I can't remember all the names but specifically hunting for Lascivious, and DEVOUR (compilation with Jax) and any in the Impulse series which had 6 total. Auriferous, Gilt, Impulse, Nadir, and 2 others I can't remember but you dig.
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Old 11th August 2001, 16:12   #3
Mr Jones
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Not sure where you are looking, I've just browsed the most recent section and seen maybe 5 four star skins?
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Old 11th August 2001, 16:22   #4
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I totally agree. I downloaded one the other night based on intial appeal and the review..(name escapes me because I deleted shortly after). It got 4 stars down the board plus a glowing review for concept and not only was it missing a skinned AVS but it had button and title bar bugs up the wazzoooo which were not even mentioned in the review?? Makes me think the reviewer never even downloaded it.
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Old 11th August 2001, 16:30   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrsbladez
Makes me think the reviewer never even downloaded it.

You can't complete a review without downloading it.

Think the issue we might have here, is the review ratings that are given to the skin, are then used to come up with an average that you see on the published skin. Two seperate issues if you like

As the system is still fairly new and needs tweaking a bit here and there I will mention this next time I see kyle on line, along with one or two other little furbars that have come to light, remeber this system is about 4 days old, and all newborns shit themselves to start with
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Old 11th August 2001, 17:25   #6
Forevever
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Jones
Not sure where you are looking, I've just browsed the most recent section and seen maybe 5 four star skins?
well I sure wish I had your software, because I'm only up to 479 skins out of 1000 new ones. I've seen a hell of a lot more 4 star ratings (in the "STAFF" review area) than 5.

If anyone can find any of the skins I made please email them to Forevever@aol.com
I can't remember all the names but specifically hunting for Lascivious, and DEVOUR (compilation with Jax) and any in the Impulse series which had 6 total. Auriferous, Gilt, Impulse, Nadir, and 2 others I can't remember but you dig.
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Old 11th August 2001, 17:30   #7
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Ahhhh I see,

You've looke at 479 skins ?, and looked at the more info page on all of them, jeepers.

Ummm, as I stated above, the 4 ratings you see on there are worked out on an average of 3 ratings we provide backstage, possiably the maths is a bit screwery, as I mentioned above ,I'll talk to Kyle next week, see if it's not an issue with the database, bugs and snafu's all around
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Old 11th August 2001, 19:09   #8
Forevever
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Notes Jotted Down while going through the most recent catagory.

I hereby nominate GaretJax and Cyana as our Skin Reviewer Squad King and Queen. They appear to me as being the most realistic, and helpful reviewers.
As our royalty, I expect you to harrass the NS team into using the guideline for reviews, which I expect you to write and make people under you follow.

Other realistic reviewers I found are (signed as): FM - J - Mr "Approved/Skin Review Squad" (who may or may not be Jax) - DuK (although he's slightly lenient, so far I've agreed with him 98%).
Funny how the unrealistic reviewers don't bother to sign out with anything...

Jax/Duk comparison:
There are 2 skins... Deblue and Deblack
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=70852
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=70853
identical in every way except for color. For completeness, Duk gives the blue one a 5, and Jax gives the black one a 3... who is right?
I'm too lazy to download, but noting that the buttons look extremely similar to the base skin, I'm placing my bet on Jax.

I can not get over the dedication of Jax. I honestly sat here and looked at 960 new skins (and for some reason the last 40 were gone due to winamp updating this particular catagory ON AN OFF DAY).
OUt of the 960, I think Jax reviewed 60% of them, Cyana reviewed about 30% of them, and the other 10% by random people.


(question from the man, Garet, did you get your name from Elfstones of Shannara?)

Unworthy 4 star skins:
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=70589
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=70591
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=70010

...you know, you have to have at least 51% of a dollar bill for it to be legal tender. You should have at least 51% of each skin window altered from the default before it can be considered a real skin. Why are we even publishing some of these that are missing, not only the AVS, not only the MB, but also missing the PL and EQ?

Another thing..do you realize there are 17 Smagexity skins and they're all skinner.exe and they're all basically the same image just moved a little...

Skins Deserving a Higher Rating: Compared to the ones above..
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=70329
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=70243
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=70002

Too much damn inconsistancy here...
do you see it?

Finally A Realistically rated skin:
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=69957

Mr. J, I did look at a majority of the reviews. I did not comment on any that I didn't look at. And I didn't look at all the of the skins that Jax reviewed. I felt little need since his seem to be very accurate. Out of 960 skins, I would say I looked at and read the reviews of about 400. When I returned to the beginning of the list to give you examples of the ones that manifested this topic, they were already updated and out of the most recent catagory. Convenient, eh?

PS, I'm not trying to be mean. I'm glad you'll let them know how I feel. I'm not meaning to slam anyone, I just think there needs to be a very strict guideline set up.
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Old 11th August 2001, 19:18   #9
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Final thought...
Ok the naked winamp skin month was cute for a while but its time to take them down...
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Old 11th August 2001, 19:24   #10
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As I've said twice in this thread already the ratings you see on the skin when published are based on an average score that is worked out from ratings that are given backstage, you see four fields there, we rate on 3, none of which match the final rating you see. How the maths work to arrive at that final rating I'm not sure, as I mentioned before I intend to take this up on Monday with the powers that be to get some clear definitions.

We have a list of questions/bug's and what if's drawn up backstage on the whole review process that will be passed along for feedback.

Remeber though at the end of the day , the reviews are based on personal tastes of the individul reviewers, if they were all the same, well there would be no point in having reviewers at all, the skin robot could spit them out for us, and hence we would be back to square one.

Also as a point of note there, you've listed pretty much all the active reviewers at this point as being "realistic reviewers" there are still a number of nominated reviewers who have yet to start due to vacations/puter problems etc etc.

As for why skinner.exe skins are being published, well why the heck shouldn't they?, to deny skinner.exe skins is downright elitest.

There are some guidelines set down by NS, and to an extent we are running by those, however they are pretty fluid, and there is some discussion backstage about coming up with a solid standard, trouble with that is, it runs the risk of turning back into the review robot spitting skins out again.
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Old 11th August 2001, 20:10   #11
Forevever
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Jones
Remeber though at the end of the day , the reviews are based on personal tastes of the individul reviewers, if they were all the same, well there would be no point in having reviewers at all, the skin robot could spit them out for us, and hence we would be back to square one.
They had a skin robot? When? And why didn't they debug that instead of the system? I think they should all be the same, to come as close to fairness as possible. Except for aesthetics, we don't need a person to do it, hook up that robot.

If anyone can find any of the skins I made please email them to Forevever@aol.com
I can't remember all the names but specifically hunting for Lascivious, and DEVOUR (compilation with Jax) and any in the Impulse series which had 6 total. Auriferous, Gilt, Impulse, Nadir, and 2 others I can't remember but you dig.
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Old 11th August 2001, 20:17   #12
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yeah the automated skin robot spat every skin out at 3 stars full stop, nothing more, nothing less, it lead if you remeber to the wails and moans of "oohhhh this isn't fair, this isn't fair, why don't we have reviewers any more" of just about every regular who visits this forum.
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Old 11th August 2001, 20:26   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Jones
yeah the automated skin robot spat every skin out at 3 stars full stop, nothing more, nothing less, it lead if you remeber to the wails and moans of "oohhhh this isn't fair, this isn't fair, why don't we have reviewers any more" of just about every regular who visits this forum.
I think a robot could give better star ratings in the completeness catagory - but anyway, I'll be anxious to see how things improve over the next couple of weeks.
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Old 11th August 2001, 20:29   #14
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Well I hope the reviewers do their level best to please you.
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Old 11th August 2001, 20:41   #15
Forevever
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Jones
Well I hope the reviewers do their level best to please you.
sarcasm noted Mr J
now what can we do to get rid of the naked skins ? :P
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Old 11th August 2001, 21:26   #16
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Download them, open the zip and put clothes on them.

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Old 11th August 2001, 21:47   #17
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"Get over it already" as you Americans might say

Quote:
Originally posted by Forevever
Too much damn inconsistancy here...
do you see it?
Yes...in your comments. For my money the Penguin Amp is very deserving of its 4 stars - I would give it 5. My reasoning is that the designer has done their own illustrations, come up with a great style and applied it really well. IceBreaker on the other hand is just layer effects and gradients - easy to do, going along with established conventions and uninspiring to me. If you go for amps that use filters etc then fine but not everyone does.

What is behind all these conflicting messages? Human nature. Why not just accept a little variety? I don't want my skins evaluated by a computer program. For all the shit of the public review system the best thing about submitting to winamp.com was the compliments I got from people I'd never met who liked what I'd done. Who wouldn't be heartened by that? But I think to look for validation in a review, as you seem to, is at best misguided. Why not chill out and try not to get so wound up about the injustice of it all? Your comments sound like something from 'Outraged of Oregon' or something.

(For the record my favourite of the new slew of skins is 52amp. You don't see graphic design as good as this in very many skins.)

Support your local team
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Old 11th August 2001, 22:17   #18
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Re: "Get over it already" as you Americans might say

Quote:
Originally posted by dekt


(For the record my favourite of the new slew of skins is 52amp. You don't see graphic design as good as this in very many skins.)
ya, I liked that one as well
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Old 11th August 2001, 22:49   #19
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Well, I'm honoured to that you think I am a King of reviewing...However, My ratings are by no means as faulty as anyone elses. There are times when I let emotional conflict interrupt some of my ratings....However, on most cases I try to be as fair as possible. My counting on completeness is one that does not include copying buttons from the base skin. Whether wrong or right I just don't think they are complete until they have actually done something with them. Now, if the skin is pretty good and a great beginning I won't ding them for not skinning the buttons in the flavor of the skin but, I won't push the points up either. Its just me...I don't expect anyone else to deliver or review as much as I do. As far as my 'level' headedness is concerned well, I don't know it all depends on what your tastes are in relation to my own.

Do I think as you do that some of the reviewers seem to be inconsistent at time...oh yeah we are all human. Escpecially me.

Did I get my name from Elfstones of Shannara...Yeppers....GaretJax.

All my reviews always get my tag...Just because, I do not like hiding behind WA. If I review something they deserve to know who did it. Even if I was unfair to them in their mind they should have the right to disagree or disapprove of my rating.



-Joe W. Garrett

1001skins.net |
That's not a skin, it's some god awful piece of skinner gunk.
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Old 12th August 2001, 00:08   #20
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The wisdom of Forever...

This made me laugh.

If it's you Forevever take into account what people have been pointing out to Bojanglez about constructive criticism. Also appreciate the irony about reviews that are off the mark, as you complained about above. And, once again, chill out - was that skin worth a review anyway?

If the reviewer wasn't you then sorry, ignore the last paragraph. Still made me laugh though.
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Old 12th August 2001, 02:23   #21
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I do go off on very ignorant tangents. The fact remains that I have to surf through 1,000 to find the 20 or so good ones.
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Old 12th August 2001, 03:02   #22
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Well, then that's probably wut makes a skin good. Being surrounding by crappy skins.
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Old 12th August 2001, 07:38   #23
Mr. Bojanglez
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grrrrrrr

i've seen some messed up reviews myself and I was going to complain as well. "Approved" saw this on non-skinner.exe skins a few times. Its like the reviewer just got tired and decided to write that everytime. On non-skinner skins I saw maybe 1 in 5 at the most reviews that actually applied to anything....

yea...I said it.

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Old 12th August 2001, 15:07   #24
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I will say this guys....

The first run or test pass of skins had nothing to do with the review team. Its a fact many of them are really not that great but, it was moreover a test of the system. And even so there are so many different tastes out there. Most of the skins that I went through in my own opinion were crap. Now, when when you go through say 80 crap skins and stumble upon something say more original and aesthetic your bound to review it better as a result of so much crap around it. Just as dekt put it. All of you have a right to be upset and I don't take it wrong that you are. However, I say give this a chance before you start nipping it in the butt. There are alot of things to still work out, and the reviewers will eventually all get on the same page as soon as the novelty wears thin.

Just please be patient I know you want your cake and ice cream all at once but, reality doesn't work that way. Sometimes, it just takes a little bit of time, patience and understanding to get what you need. Voice your opinions but, please try not to be so negative as to suggest the system is not even worth it. Then we go back to caveman days where the review system was even worse off.

-Joe W. Garrett

1001skins.net |
That's not a skin, it's some god awful piece of skinner gunk.
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Old 12th August 2001, 17:12   #25
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Actually Dekt, the reason I reviewed that particular skin is because it pissed me off. Weed is in no way a comparison to college. For one, to give up college in favor of any substance is just plain stupid. Second, you're probably going to find drugs a hell of a lot more available when you get to college. Third, being a pot head is not a status symbol, and I strongly dislike people who think they're "kewl" because they are one. (edited my review accordingly).

Garet?
As I said earlier, I still think your ratings are the most accurate, and that your lengthy explanations are more than enough to satisfy me.
[side note]The man says those are awesome books![/side note]

I don't consider the new system "broken". Just slightly cracked. And like I told Mr J, I'm looking forward to seeing how ya'll apply the spackle and paint.
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Old 12th August 2001, 17:23   #26
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grrrrr

I hope someone reviews my skins right...

yea...I said it.

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Old 12th August 2001, 17:47   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Forevever
[B]Actually Dekt, the reason I reviewed that particular skin is because it pissed me off. Weed is in no way a comparison to college. For one, to give up college in favor of any substance is just plain stupid. Second, you're probably going to find drugs a hell of a lot more available when you get to college. Third, being a pot head is not a status symbol, and I strongly dislike people who think they're "kewl" because they are one.
The possibility exists that the author of this particular skin just stumbled across a pic that struck him funny and made a skin out of it. I find this a much likelier explanation than he was trying to make a political statement. So his sense of humor sucks. Being an idiot is not illegal.
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Old 12th August 2001, 17:49   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by e-blackadder
Being an idiot is not illegal.
pity...

If anyone can find any of the skins I made please email them to Forevever@aol.com
I can't remember all the names but specifically hunting for Lascivious, and DEVOUR (compilation with Jax) and any in the Impulse series which had 6 total. Auriferous, Gilt, Impulse, Nadir, and 2 others I can't remember but you dig.
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Old 12th August 2001, 18:00   #29
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Oddly enuff, that's exactly what I was thinking when I typed it.
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Old 12th August 2001, 21:03   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Forevever
Weed is in no way a comparison to college. For one, to give up college in favor of any substance is just plain stupid. Second, you're probably going to find drugs a hell of a lot more available when you get to college.
LOL - sorry but I find it quite funny how literally and seriously you're taking a 5-second skin done by some stoners. The quote is probably how my mum would react to it.

Another thing - why, when you're sifting through the 'new skins' category, do you expect to find loads of brilliant ones?
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Old 12th August 2001, 23:25   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by dekt

LOL - sorry but I find it quite funny how literally and seriously you're taking a 5-second skin done by some stoners.
LOL I think its funny how you think any of this is really affecting me.

I can bitch and whine and complain and hate with the best of them ::waves hi to Mr Bo::

When I sign off, I don't take this with me.

Glad to have entertained you

If anyone can find any of the skins I made please email them to Forevever@aol.com
I can't remember all the names but specifically hunting for Lascivious, and DEVOUR (compilation with Jax) and any in the Impulse series which had 6 total. Auriferous, Gilt, Impulse, Nadir, and 2 others I can't remember but you dig.
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Old 13th August 2001, 07:26   #32
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I think most reviewers after a "session" of reviewing, see so much of the same shit, that judgement on a "decent" skin may get a higher score because all they have seen are mediocre skins.

Its basic psychology which I took many moons ago.

On the point where reviews have generic "responses"...if the skin took 2 seconds to make, a 2 second response is expected.

Jax, good for you for not hiding behind WA, as soon as you rate one of my skins, i'll let you know what I think of what you think
[oops, i am in retirment from skinning, although Rosario Sanchez of Rush Hour 2 is making me think I should do another picture skin ]

Lastly, I would like to add to this complaint thread about John S. again...is that cat ever gonna lose his thousand aliases? I mean have you seen the amount of "reviews" he gets? its in the several hundreds....
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Old 14th August 2001, 03:37   #33
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ggggrrrrrrrr

I say don't publish skinner.exe stuff, waste of time, space, and the reviewers energy, it also makes the backlog larger and the good skins don't get published, it also makes many people steer away from the skin database here and go to sites such as devart and 1001 where there is quality control on skins...

yea...I said it.

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Old 14th August 2001, 10:37   #34
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Is this realistic... http://www.winamp.com/components/det...ponentId=72282
it was my 1st or 2nd skin, done over 3 years ago in Paint, I know, I know it's shitty, but it has skins for Vidamp, and 2 presets in it, and lot of bugfixes. The version 2 which I posted some months ago got a 2, ad this got a 1.5 (ain't it weird !?!?!?!). It has DFX and Albumlist skins now, but they aren't published.
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Old 14th August 2001, 19:17   #35
Neko
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i agree with Mr. Bojanglez, dont publish skinner.exe stuff, its just annouying, wading through hundreds of skins, rarely finding one that even has all its components skinned, i think people should understand, how easy it is to run an image through skinner.ese and publish it here, you know how you have a robot to run the skin and take a picture of it for preview, if you programmed it to reject skins without mb.bmp, alot of the crap would be filetered out, also, a nice big warning on the publish area screens telling users to stop putting total crap in the databases, if you actually deleted all the skins in the database, and only used the decent ones, there would be around 150/300 in each catagory, and not the usual 1400, that way people wouldnt grow beards looking for a decent skin, or look elsewhere.. damn, theres that many poor skins in the new skins section it makes me wonder .. so yes, i beleive skinner.exe stuff should be banned, and left for peoples personal sites only, fair enough, some of them do look okay, but the majrity is horrible
rant rant rant, kay, have my rant now, timeto watch tv. i think im gunna add more to my skin again..


raydream tsunami - more detail then a closeup cow
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Old 17th August 2001, 19:57   #36
Duk
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I'll stand behind my 5 on Completeness for that blue skin. It is complete and usable. Simple. Is it pretty? Well, not exactly ... thus the lower marks in other categories. And since this is the only skin I ever gave a 5 to in any category given the SEA of 2's and 1's I've handed out, I think I have a nice picture in my head of what is deserved and what isn't imho. If Nullsoft thinks my rating is inept, they can yank me. Easy enuff ta do.

And just as an aside, you seem a little bitter, Forever. I've read more than one post from you now flaming Skin Reviewers. Why the hostility? Contrary to what you might think, we are trying to do a good job, really.
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Old 18th August 2001, 04:46   #37
Namelessv1
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Uhh...John...Forever aint a he.
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Old 18th August 2001, 06:33   #38
Mr. Bojanglez
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grrrrrrrrrrrr

out of curiosity which reviewer gave amp's latest straight 5 star ratings?

yea...I said it.

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Old 18th August 2001, 19:10   #39
Duk
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Re: Notes Jotted Down while going through the most recent catagory.

Quote:
Originally posted by Forevever
Jax/Duk comparison:
There are 2 skins... Deblue and Deblack
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=70852
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=70853
After careful consideration (and after reviewing the rating methods of others), I have decided to amend this Completeness rating on Blue to a 3. I suppose it would seem I am a bit on the lenient side as reviewers go. But I too am for greater consistency, and as such, I will attempt to conform a bit. Thank you for making me give this process a harder look, Forever. And everyone, please keep in mind this system is still a baby trying to crawl before it can walk. While some reviewers might be taking on a truckload of skins trying to force the kid to walk quickly, uniformity and consistency will take time. Please do be patient.
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Old 18th August 2001, 21:10   #40
Mr. Bojanglez
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grrrrrrrr

in my opinion there'll never be a near perfect way to rate skins, but this'll do as I don't submit skins here anyhow.

yea...I said it.

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