Old 7th June 2011, 11:16   #161
kerimcem
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http://i51.tinypic.com/5jrxj5.jpg
v.30
buffer decreased
normal?
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Old 7th June 2011, 15:25   #162
SilverBird775
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I think for default buffer i chose the optimal (480ms) size. Bigger buffer waste a CPU cache, the lesser one increasing the possible sound lag glitches and is not really benefitial speed wise.

I'm not sure what about your saying 'decreased'?! Thats the nice catch though, i did slightly bumped up the resampler quality and thus slightly push up the buffer demands for 0.30. But it is should not be any problem there. If you feel uneasy you can increase the buffer then, its safe.


Hint:
Checking all boxes on 'Exclusive' page would result in always forced bit-copy mode. Unchecked boxes may automatically enable some processing of plugin choice but this also greatly helps for software compatibility.
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Old 7th June 2011, 16:50   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBird775 View Post
I'm not sure what about your saying 'decreased'?!
buffer decreased than earlier
thanks.
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Old 7th June 2011, 21:51   #164
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Sorry i had not seen your picture at my work computer. If there is a problem with a sound then please define the buffer manually. But if it works good then you may just ignore it.



Next update July 3
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Old 26th June 2011, 09:50   #165
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v.31
improved buffer works well
thanks silver.
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Old 3rd July 2011, 15:42   #166
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hi silver
v.33 dont work
winamp crash

log
Input stream:
Unspecified encoding in Unspecified setup. 0Hz rate
MAIKO buffer/latency: 0 samples (0 µs)

Output stream:
32 bit float PCM encoding in 2.0 (Stereo) setup. 48000Hz rate
Client buffer: 0 samples (0 µs)
Client latency: 0 µs
Mixer scheduling period (latency): 10000 µs
Minimum device period (latency): 3000 µs
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Old 4th July 2011, 12:15   #167
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Try new one
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Old 4th July 2011, 14:41   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBird775 View Post
Try new one
thanks silver..
v.34 works well
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Old 5th July 2011, 21:51   #169
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Periodic crashes intermittently while playing songs. Exclusive mode, Realtek 889, TOSLINK S/PDIF output, default Windows driver (Realtek's doesnt support 32kHz or 88.2kHz output, of which I have many files in that format).

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: winamp.exe
Application Version: 5.6.1.3133
Application Timestamp: 4d88ec8b
Fault Module Name: audiokse.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.1.7600.16385
Fault Module Timestamp: 4a5bdac9
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 0005aef4
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 0a9e
Additional Information 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Additional Information 3: 0a9e
Additional Information 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
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Old 6th July 2011, 10:07   #170
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Rfire, try different settings. You may also stick with just one mode and resampler for a while in a quest to minimize mode switches. Fixating a certain encoding is a good idea too. For example, some cards (drivers?) does not like 32bit or 24bit but ok with 24bit zero padded up to 32bit.

AudioKsEndpoint (audiokse.dll) is the Microsoft domain. Have no idea what cause it to crush. At least it does not screen blue. It is picky on drivers and players. Sorry could not help more, have no trouble using toslink or coaxial S/PDIF myself.

What the error saying, it's a memory Access Violation exception, Buffer Overrun in audiokse.dll
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Old 10th July 2011, 02:13   #171
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Winamp panning?

Is there any possibility to support Winamp balance slider (panning) ?
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Old 10th July 2011, 15:06   #172
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No, there would be no panning. I believe panning is not a good design conceptually. I have an idea, image close to receiver DSP functionality, per channel volume gain would be much more flexible. Also, the mute function is under consideration too.
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Old 10th July 2011, 15:42   #173
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OK - whatever

Please notice we all use Winamp to listen to all music not "audiophile" grade sources only. I used to watch movies in Winamp too. Sometimes channel levels are not well balanced and then ASIO or WASAPI disabling panning slider are confusing. On the other hand - switching between ASIO / WASAPI / DIRECT SOUND outputs dependent on input source is even more confusing...

Thus - some simple mechanism to provide convenient channel level correction should be appreciated IMHO !
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Old 11th July 2011, 13:34   #174
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Thank You!

Been playing around with a lot of different things trying to get a something that passes digital in the most 'unmolested' way possible and just started fooling around with winamp. Tried that asio plugin at first which, at least on my setup, was comically terrible. After managing to unistall that (it was dug in like a tick) set up yours in exclusive mode and so far it's handled every sample rate/bit depth I've thrown at it beautifully.

Really like being able to double click on the plugin to pull up the panel that gives all the playback info. Very nice works. Thanks again!
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Old 11th July 2011, 18:27   #175
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Dunno about double click. Traybar icon have three mouse keys programmed:

single left mouse key - Output settings window
single middle mouse key - Most essential info
single right mouse key - Context menu for a quick switch

---

PS. mute of context menu does not work yet. Please do not press it, it went out overlooked :P

Also please remember you have to stop the player before switching the playback device to avoid incorrect plugin behaviour. The hot unplugging does not work too.

For a guys that still having problem with exclusive mode, i'm aware of your problem and digging for solutions.
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Old 12th July 2011, 11:04   #176
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Here's what I was talking about

Hopefully the attachments show up.
When I go into settings and double click on the entry for your plugin I get the result pop up that shows the details for the signal that's being passed. I've been battling with various possible 'solutions' for playback for a few days now so when I found one that just worked I just wanted to say thanks without a lot of details then get back to listening to music on my day off.

For my purposes I'm using winamp only for audio so I've killed anything unrelated to that. Use wmc and arcsoft for blu ray, dvd, tv etc.

For anyone that might be interested my setup and config is as follows:
Win 7 64 bit
i7 1366
Optical out from an x-fi titanium (wmc/arcsoft set to use hdmi)
And your plugin set to use exclusive mode (settings attached).

Like I said ... it just worked from the get-go so haven't played around with it much. Let me know if you have any suggestions.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Plugin.JPG
Views:	683
Size:	46.1 KB
ID:	48971   Click image for larger version

Name:	Info.JPG
Views:	648
Size:	56.0 KB
ID:	48972   Click image for larger version

Name:	Exclusive.JPG
Views:	604
Size:	53.5 KB
ID:	48973  
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Old 12th July 2011, 11:12   #177
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I see what you're saying about the tray icon now. You get the exact same thing just by clicking on it rathing than going through the preferences for the player.
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Old 12th July 2011, 13:49   #178
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You have set it to bypass any processing. But i do recommend to allow resampling below and above certain input frequency thresholds. That is highly unlikely the card support anything less then 44100 in hardware. Allowing processing for otherwise unsupportable output is a nice idea. Would be obliged to put fail message otherwise.

I do honestly believe "...but always resample" exceptions should be always set when there is no special purpose in letting it fail or even when it is unlikely, to bypass.
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Old 12th July 2011, 15:12   #179
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I see what you're saying but the only thing I'm using winamp for in this setup is delivering a digital signal from lossless 44.1/16 wma, higher rez stuff like 96/24, 88.2/24 to a fairly high end preamp/processor so I'd never be playing anything through winamp that was under 44.1.

Though guess it couldn't hurt to do what you say just on the off chance I do play something weird so I don't get a big blast of noise from the system.

Thanks
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Old 12th July 2011, 15:33   #180
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Yep. I mean something like it, even on dedicated audio machine could be a surprise another day. Anyway there is also another truth you have to fail once to ensure you want override it. There is always a variety of possible setups in exclusive mode. Always trial and adjust approach, no common setup. At least you have a bunch of switches where you can deal with unsupported odd formats.

Another quick way to play the odds is to click on the traybar icon, switch off the exclusive mode for a track or two, then switch it on back. Could be a minor quality loss this way but the usability and compatibility grows really exponentially is shared mode. It literally plays everything you throw into winamp.
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Old 12th July 2011, 16:36   #181
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I'll play around with it. When I first set your plugin up I didn't have it set to exclusive and it was downsampling the high rez files down to 44.1 but maybe I just didn't have something configured properly. Setting it to exclusive took care of that so I didn't change anything after that.

I started fooling around with this stuff primarily trying to find a way to get the built in MS players to send the native sample rates of the audio to my preamp without having to go into the control panel and manually switch it depending on what I was playing. Then I started reading about some of the issues the windows audio stack can cause which kicked my semi-dormant obsessive compulsive disorder into over drive. Really wanted to keep everything within the wmc interface since it handles my fairly huge assortment of blu ray and various other hd vid files but anything that fixed one problem screwed up something else. There's an asio plugin for wmp but it's pretty squirrelly. Got it to the point that reclock was sending everything via wasapi EXCEPT wma which I just could not get to forgo media foundation no matter what I did and I unfortunately have 2000+ albums in wma lossless. I was so frustrated I was ready to convert the whole damn collection back to flac ... which you can hack wmp/wmc to play back and even include in the library but it's just too clunky.

Used foobar for a while and it worked/sounded great using either the asio or wasapi modules that are available. Unfortunately it's just way too much work to make it look good on a 64 inch screen so I really can't overstate how happy I was when I hooked your plugin into winamp (an interface that I like a lot) and suddenly everything just worked.

So once again .... BIG thanks.
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Old 20th July 2011, 12:25   #182
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"you should not ever see this!"

Definitely I see this message too often - especially after resuming computer from stand-by state and trying playing Winamp (Windows 7 x64 Ultimate).
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Old 20th July 2011, 13:41   #183
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Hi,

Suddenly today I can't go into "Exclusive" mode any more!
I can show you two scenarios:

- When I go switch into "Exclusive" mode just after system reboot it goes, show the confirmation info balloon but then the playback is corrupted, with characteristic audible echo and distortion.

- When then I switch back into "Shared" mode, then switch to another sound device (I have SoundBlaster X-Fi HD as primary device and USB headset as secondary one) and play some audio then revert to SoundBlaster and switch to "Exclusive" then, while playing audio I get this message:

"YOU SHOULD NOT EVER SEE THIS!"

and Winamp get crashed. A few times it crashed with BSOD and this is dumpfile analysis:

On Wed 2011-07-20 11:56:25 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\072011-54709-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x7FD00)
Bugcheck code: 0x3B (0xC0000046, 0xFFFFF800030C55FC, 0xFFFFF88008D3A4C0, 0x0)
Error: SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that an exception happened while executing a routine that transitions from non-privileged code to privileged code.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


Would you be so kind and explain what has happened that I can't use "Exclusive" mode any more? It used to work in the past and "Shared" mode is still working fine but... I like it "Exclusive" !!!
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Old 23rd July 2011, 19:13   #184
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The BSOD seems to be a driver issue. Good news Maiko is not the only WASAPI plugin for winamp, you have a choice.

There is no privileged or malicious bits in my code. No special user rights required. I believe my software is reasonable bug free too.

It seems Win7 have some special quirks. The overall Vista's WASAPI quality is better. Also, never update the Creative(tm) drivers. If it works bad before update it will malfunction after. I settle up with a custom modified drivers, they work, they have some bearable glitches. No more Creative to me.

If it fails resuming stand-by then try to enable the "Free device when idle" option. Some drivers accept 32 bit output but BSOD semi-random.
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Old 6th August 2011, 01:25   #185
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seems like theres only the adionsoft wasapi plugin, but no other for winamp. and that one has the annoying stop playback crash. so we really depend on you

so hoping for more improvements & fixing of the exclusive mode
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Old 28th August 2011, 19:47   #186
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Great work SilverBird775!

Is it possible to add a crossfade between songs feature like in the Nullsoft
DirectSound plugin?
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Old 29th August 2011, 11:22   #187
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No such function planned. I would like to keep the functionality for the very basic needs only. Want it to be as clean, simple and predictable as possible. Here is a zero gap between tracks out of the box, rapid start and stop. I'm not going to implement the stereo panning, but per channel volume control instead. There would be no equalizers, compressors or alike, only the most basic tools. The little spare time i have just faithfully secure the design decisions.

Thanks to forums search i had found you have matrix mixer processor enabled. Is there any problem with maiko build in channel fill? It should support 2->5.1 mapping.
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Old 30th August 2011, 00:19   #188
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Hi SilverBird775,

I understand. Crossfading between songs is a nice to have when using a playlist
for parties. I can switch back to DirectSound for that and use your plugin for my
private enjoyment. I use MP3 Trim Pro to remove most of the silence from the
start and end of my MP3s, so any gap between songs is very small.

I use Matrix Mixer to upmix stereo to 5.1. Only thing I could find that gives me
total control over what goes to each channel. Channel fill does not. I was also
using Matrix Mixer to upsample until I discovered your plugin. My sound card
driver does not support channel fill, so Maiko alone was giving me stereo. Yes,
it's a Creative product, nuff said!

Matrix Mixer allows its output to be directed to another output plugin (no need
for output stackers which mess with buffering). The 16/44.1 5.1 output is accepted
by Maiko with zero problems and the final result (shared mode) is awesome IMO.
Not sure what more bit perfect (exclusive mode) will give me.

One more question. Both my mobo sound chip and my sound card are 24 bit.
One device driver allows 24/9600 max and the other allows 24/19200 max. So
I set Windows' shared mode to 24/9600 for both of them. Does this mean that
Windows' shared mode is downsampling your 32 bit float to 24 bit int? I use one
device to drive my speakers and the other to drive my headphones when I'm
actively DJing at parties.
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Old 30th August 2011, 15:45   #189
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I see what you mean with "total control over what goes to each channel". The sophisticated channel balance matrix already part of maiko design. I could not yet realize the controls because i'm stuck with exclusive mode problems. Hope to finish alternative renderer soon. On success i will back to a mixer panel tabs.

Quote:
16/44.1 5.1
Why not 24/44.1 5.1 or 32/44.1 5.1 ?
Maiko accept 8,16,24,32 bit PCM input. And 32, 64, 80 bit float point input. The better the precision the less are the losses on a "digital link" across the plugins. For a shared mode any input would be converted to Maiko internal 80 bit float point. Compared to a such expensive extreme, the intermediate 16 bit is a bottleneck. The MatrixMixer internal is 64 bit float point. So your plugin link setup gives me pain to understand 64f>16i>80f

Quote:
Maiko alone was giving me stereo
The Maiko alone giving you stereo because you set it to output stereo. You have to set the windows speakers to their native, that would be more correct. If the source and system speakers does not match the Maiko's build-in channel fill will work then. If (for exclusive mode only) you explicitly disabled the Maiko's channel fill then hardware would be reconfigured to match the source channel set.

Quote:
Does this mean that Windows' shared mode is downsampling your 32 bit float to 24 bit int?
Yes, it supposed to be converted (Some onboard codecs support the 32 bit float in native though) Nevertheless it is not some random choice, the plugin was instructed by windows for the preferred internal format. Any format in shared mode would be converted to the windows internal first so i'm giving a favor doing it myself. With every system mixer processing excluded the very thin kernel layer leftover allowing to mix applications, to limit, to attenuate and convert to 24 or 16 bit. The exclusive mode is excluding what is left of kernel mixer.
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Old 30th August 2011, 18:11   #190
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What is it that this Output plugin provides that is different from the DirectSound output, and what are the advantages this plugin has over the DirectSound?
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Old 30th August 2011, 21:17   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maiko.elementfx.com
Maiko overtakes every nuance on windows kernel data trasformations for winamp application and choose it's own algorithms possibly quality benefitial. The above procedure is alike DirectSound but with undiverted accent on quality.
So tells my homepage. The difference is always in a small details and it really depends on awareness. Some users are quite picky on demands so there are a custom plugins. Mine is not the only one, there is a lot plugins, even DirectSound based. But main difference is that my plugin using the native sound core WASAPI for Vista and W7 whereas the directsound is a bulk over WASAPI. Mine is not the only WASAPI plugin for Winamp. I know four of them. Every one is special.
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Old 30th August 2011, 23:50   #192
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Hi,

Quote:
"The sophisticated channel balance matrix already part of maiko design. I could not yet realize the controls because i'm stuck with exclusive mode problems."

Glad to hear this. Looking forward to what you come up with.

Quote:
"Why not 24/44.1 5.1 or 32/44.1 5.1 ?"

I was using Matrix Mixer to upsample my 16/44.1 MP3s to 32/192 and upmix 2 channels to 6 before passing the output to the DirectSound plugin. Maiko would not work with the 32/192 upsampling. It did work with 32/96 upsampling. Then I was thinking it was best to upsample in one place to limit rounding error, so I set MM to 16/44.1 and just used it for upmixing and used Maiko for upsampling. Did not know that MM is 64 bit float internal. So the rounding error is not much greater than Maiko's?

Quote:
"The Maiko alone giving you stereo because you set it to output stereo."

Not true. I have Windows set for 5.1. The Maiko status log even stated under Output stream: "32 bit float PCM encoding 5.1 (DVD) setup." But Maiko's channel fill does not work for my system, I was still getting stereo. This is the main reason I was still using Matrix Mixer.

Quote:
"Any format in shared mode would be converted to the windows internal first so i'm giving a favor doing it myself."

So Maiko changes 32 float/96 to 24 int/96. DirectSound lets Windows change 32 int/192 (passed to it by Matrix Mixer) to 24 int/96. I don't know which is better. They seem to 'sound the same' to me.

My main reasons for wanting to use Maiko instead of Matrix Mixer and DirectSound (5.1 upmixing and much less rounding error) does not work for me in the first case and may not be true in the second.

However, the Peak output loudness overload detection report in the Maiko status log led me to correcting an improper setting of the gain in the DSP plugin I'm using. Thank you for including that info in the status report.

Good Luck with resolving the remaining Maiko design issues. I will be keeping an eye on this project.
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Old 31st August 2011, 15:16   #193
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Quote:
I have Windows set for 5.1. The Maiko status log even stated under Output stream: "32 bit float PCM encoding 5.1 (DVD) setup." But Maiko's channel fill does not work for my system, I was still getting stereo. This is the main reason I was still using Matrix Mixer.
If the status log said something it means. It seems the upmixer broke, i will look at.

Quote:
So Maiko changes 32 float/96 to 24 int/96. DirectSound lets Windows change 32 int/192 (passed to it by Matrix Mixer) to 24 int/96. I don't know which is better. They seem to 'sound the same' to me.
Not quite right. That's not me doing 32f > 24i, that is what windows do. But it supposed to be so, no way around exept exclusive modes which are plane direct. Under DirectSound the chain is a bit different: 32i > 32f > 24i. The DirectSound is build a top of WASAPI, it should go through it own internal then kernel internal processing.

I will explain a different processing chains for you so you may have some reference thought and understanding what is really going on the top scale.

Here you are listening 16/44.1 through MM & DS, upmixed, upsampled:
decoder(16i/2.0/44.1) -> MM(16i->64f/5.1/192->32i) -> DS(32i->32f) -> WASAPI(32f->24i)

Here you are listening 16/44.1 through MM & Maiko, upmixed, upsampled:
decoder(16i/2.0/44.1) -> MM(16i->64f/5.1->16i) -> WASAPI(16i->80f/192->32f->24i)

Here you are listening 16/44.1 through Maiko, upmixed, upsampled:
decoder(16i/2.0/44.1) -> WASAPI(16i->80f/5.1/192->32f->24i)

Here you are listening 16/44.1 through Maiko, upmixed, upsampled, exclusive mode:
decoder(16i/2.0/44.1) -> WASAPI(16i->80f/5.1/192->24i)

Here you are listening 16/44.1 through Maiko, bit copy exclusive mode:
decoder(16i/2.0/44.1) -> WASAPI(16i/2.0/44.1)
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Old 31st August 2011, 16:41   #194
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Hi SilverBird775,

I think I understand. Since Maiko upsamples frequency to 192 internal, it had problem with
192 passed to it by MM (maybe?).

Maiko's upmix channel fill may have problem.

Maiko will be better than MM + DS when Maiko works as designed. Although, I really like
the crossfeed between tracks feature in DS. :-)

Great, looking forward to this. Thank you for this "labor of love"!!!
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Old 11th October 2011, 08:51   #195
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Hi SilverBird775,

I tried version 0.36 of the Maiko output plugin in shared mode.

The latency reported to Winamp dropped from 480 milliseconds to 320, so the
client buffer dropped from 480,000 microseconds to 320,000. That's good, shows
the optimizing. All other reported latencies stayed the same.

However, the mixer is still not working for me. The log still reports 32 bit float
PCM encoding in 5.1 (DVD) setup, but I only get sound from my front left and right
speakers. The other 4 channels are on. I can hear faint white noise from them that
increases with increasing overall volume. Same as with version 0.35. I checked the
Windows control panel and all six channels were set to the same output levels.

Also the peak output loudness detected stays at 0 db with version 0.36.
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Old 11th October 2011, 10:53   #196
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hi silver...
v36 have less voice than v35

v.35 v.36


v.36 log
nput stream:
16 bit PCM encoding in 2.0 (Stereo) setup. 48000Hz rate
MAIKO buffer/latency: 0 samples (0 µs)

Output stream:
32 bit float PCM encoding in 2.0 (Stereo) setup. 48000Hz rate
Client buffer: 15360 samples (320000 µs)
Client latency: 10666 µs
Mixer scheduling period (latency): 10000 µs
Minimum device period (latency): 3000 µs

Shared mode renderer

Plugin latency reported to Winamp: 320 ms
Peak output loudness detected: 0,000000 db
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Old 11th October 2011, 21:00   #197
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Aminifu,
Loudness monitor is disabled. It's not a primary feature, but will sure reenable it once again at some point.
So, 2.0 to 5.1 channel fill still does not work, thats unfortunate. I can only really check 5.1 to 2.0 which is working beautifully.

kerimcem,
Looks like it got attenuated twice.


Thank you for giving it a try. Will post about the next update. No ETA.
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Old 11th October 2011, 23:21   #198
Aminifu
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Hi SilverBird775,

The loudness monitor is very useful. Please reenable it sooner rather than later.
Maybe after you bring the mixer controls out, I'll be able to get it working on my
system. Still looking forward to replacing MM + DS with Maiko.
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Old 13th October 2011, 15:28   #199
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0.37!
There was a lot of hardworking put into this release, lots of substantial changes. It sounds truly intimate and lovely, the way me ultimately likes, silk soft comfortable but powerfull. Enjoy!

kerimcem
Your problem solved

Aminifu
Not so much luck for your case. Yet I have no idea about broken 2.0->5.1. The loudness monitor is out of code structure, it has always been the part of the much bigger structure i.e. per-channel input\output monitors for a menus. Due to the recents mixer core changes i had to disassemble everything apart to give the full attention to the core, which is the heart of the plugin and very complex. It's more quality\speed\resource efficient then 0.35.

The next release could be in December not any time sooner. Need some cooldown to pay more attention to the real matters.

---

Looking for a kind guy or girl, an English expert to help me to revise the menu option texts. Everyone is welcomed to PM. The natives and maiko plugin users are much desired.
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:13   #200
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thanks silver..
v.37 works well
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