Old 28th October 2006, 10:32   #1
dj_humpyg
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2
Is streaming music legal?

Hi,

I wanted to be able to stream 10 tracks on my website, they wouldn't be available for download, just to listen to but then I thought this would be illegal.

Then I came across the SHOUTcast. I'm confused as to what's legal/illegal.

If I setup a SHOUTcast and visitors could stream that, then are they allowed to, since the MP3s I'd be playing would be subject to copyright etc.

For instance, I came across this website <http://nunzioweb.com/jukebox.shtml> which is perfect for what I want, but again, not sure if this is legal/illegal.

Can anyone help?

Thanks,
DJ.
dj_humpyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2006, 10:53   #2
Nick@ss
Moderator
 
Nick@ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Streamsolutions Headquarters
Posts: 11,953
if the station owner has the relevant licenses its legal.

the risk is down to the individual as to wether they license their station or not.

check http://www.ludcity.net for more licensing information
Nick@ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2006, 11:02   #3
dj_humpyg
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2
Do you mean if I legally own the 10 tracks I'm playing, then everyone else who listens to it is doing so legally?

I presume I don't need to pay no licensee fees etc, like a normal radio station would?
dj_humpyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2006, 11:05   #4
Nick@ss
Moderator
 
Nick@ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Streamsolutions Headquarters
Posts: 11,953
if you re playing music that has a copyright then you need a license to stream it legally.

you may own the 10 tracks but you dont have the rights to broadcast them.

if you are doing a talk show then you dont need a license

there is a lot of unsigned music out there and you can play that with the owners permissions.
Nick@ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2006, 14:46   #5
hackerdork
Forum King
 
hackerdork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Circa sometime.
Posts: 3,297
just becasue your OWN the music/cd doesnt give you the right to broadcast to the public. The laws are different in every country, the USA has several groups that control the digital rights e.g RIAA, FCC whatever.

shoutcast is NOT the license holder, but looking at www.loudcity.com you can find info on this subject, GOOGLE, or your local library.

~ D

~ According to the ship's log we're down to our last 3000 vomit bags.It'll never be enough.
search the forums! don't PM me on how-to, or ask me to setup you system. you do it so you learn.
hackerdork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2006, 00:11   #6
sputnik radio
Major Dude
 
sputnik radio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 871
You could always just go with a company that offers licensing and stream hosting all in one package. Recently I signed up with http://www.webradioworld.com/index.htm

and have been covered under their world wide license. They are the only company that is currently offering world wide licensing. Plus their shoutcast hosting plans cant be beat.

Believe me I searched long and hard to find a solution and now I have.
sputnik radio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2006, 19:36   #7
Nick@ss
Moderator
 
Nick@ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Streamsolutions Headquarters
Posts: 11,953
im incredibly suspect about this as it doesnt mention licensing of any kind on their site or anything about pricing.

im not host bashing im just curious to see how they can get a world license when there are no agreements between the major internet licensing bodies like ria/sesac/ppl/mcprsuk let alone companies we have never seen or head of before.

im sure if these people were genuine then they would be pushing this in a big way.

make sure you have done your homework as most of the licensees are well known and will only license their own territories.

it would be interesting to see a little more info as the link is broken to their plans
Nick@ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2006, 16:42   #8
sputnik radio
Major Dude
 
sputnik radio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 871
Quote:
Originally posted by nick@ss
im incredibly suspect about this as it doesnt mention licensing of any kind on their site or anything about pricing.

im not host bashing im just curious to see how they can get a world license when there are no agreements between the major internet licensing bodies like ria/sesac/ppl/mcprsuk let alone companies we have never seen or head of before.

im sure if these people were genuine then they would be pushing this in a big way.

make sure you have done your homework as most of the licensees are well known and will only license their own territories.

it would be interesting to see a little more info as the link is broken to their plans
Not sure how they have it all worked out. But I assure you they have been to europe several times negotiating this licensing. If you are suspect I recommend you contact them and ask them yourself.

I've been with them a few months now and the service and support is excellent. They have gone through extremes to ensure the integrity of thier network. Unlike some other Host that I will not mention that oversold their bandwith and then had to drop me as soon as i peaked to 100 concurrent listenrs.
sputnik radio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2006, 16:58   #9
Nick@ss
Moderator
 
Nick@ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Streamsolutions Headquarters
Posts: 11,953
to be honest im not suspect enough to contact them as i have no real interest my only concerns people may not be protected as well as they think they are,

im not casting slanderous dispersions but merely making sure you have all your angles covered if you are paying for a world wide license that not many have heard of before.

on the other hand i could be completely wrong and they may be 100% genuine but im not saying either way just be careful and make sure your not wasting cash.

a few emails checking stuff out is allways worth a go just to be sure.
Nick@ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2006, 17:01   #10
sputnik radio
Major Dude
 
sputnik radio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 871
Quote:
Originally posted by nick@ss
to be honest im not suspect enough to contact them as i have no real interest my only concerns people may not be protected as well as they think they are,

im not casting slanderous dispersions but merely making sure you have all your angles covered if you are paying for a world wide license that not many have heard of before.

on the other hand i could be completely wrong and they may be 100% genuine but im not saying either way just be careful and make sure your not wasting cash.

a few emails checking stuff out is allways worth a go just to be sure.
Well he used to be covered under BMI the world wide licensing is something New that he has arranged over the last few months. Its New so that may be why you never heard of it.

I sent him an email asking him more details so i could provide you with them . I will let you know what i find out.
sputnik radio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2006, 17:14   #11
Nick@ss
Moderator
 
Nick@ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Streamsolutions Headquarters
Posts: 11,953
ok but as mentioned im not looking for proof but you should be.

if it were me i would be looking for the international agreements and who they are between as world coverage is a lot of agreements.
Nick@ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2006, 21:35   #12
WebRadioWorld
Junior Member
 
WebRadioWorld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 13
Send a message via Yahoo to WebRadioWorld
Hello to nick@ass I am here to make some clarification on the multi country PPL license set up for Web Radio World.

I can confirm what Sputnik Radio has said we have secured the exclusive rights to offer this royalties licensing only which is actually called a “Extended Territory”.

No it’s not mentioned on our website yet as we are still working out reporting procedures as you can expect are a monster and we wanted to have it right before we went public with it.

We have been in negotiations with Matt McAleer at PPL UK (Broadcast Licensing Executive Rights Negotiation PPL / VPL)for several month on this license for online radio stations. Our main concern presently is being able to keep records to the standards required.

We are also currently in negotiations with MCPS-PRS for the same type of extended Territory license.

Next year we are looking at meeting with the BIG 5 record companies, the RIAA and others in light of getting an standardized Online Broadcasters license produced. We are hoping that we will be able to announce next year that we will have flat rate monthly fees affordable by all, which will be specifically for online broadcasters with under 1000 listeners.

I am not writing this post to prove anything to nick@ass and I am quite amused at his postings and being sceptical, but then again I can sort of understand, with companies like Live365 and loud city who are selling nothing, you’re not legal with either of these licenses. As mentioned here in this forum you actually need 2 licenses. And for those that do have them are only covered in the USA or the UK. It’s a scam if you ask me.

This is why there is no mention on our website as we want to have both parts in place and have the proper recording methods. It’s a huge job and it takes time but when it roles out it will change then online broadcasting industry allowing everyone to be licensed and the record companies, artists and composers to make a lot of money from us streaming their music.

If you have any questions about this or about licensing in general feel free to message me or email.

Daniel Brewington
CEO
dan.brewington@webradioworld.com
WebRadioWorld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 00:55   #13
sputnik radio
Major Dude
 
sputnik radio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 871
yeah what he said.
sputnik radio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 06:18   #14
Nick@ss
Moderator
 
Nick@ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Streamsolutions Headquarters
Posts: 11,953
A very nice pitch,

you speak a lot of what you are doing but not of what you have done and confirmed.

you seem dead set on proving to me that this is all above board and legit when it makes no difference to me, i was merely advising that if it were me i would be ensuring if i were paying someone to keep me legal that they are doing what they say.

you have nothing to prove to me but if someone were to put a lawsuit on you lap can you honestly say hand on heart that you have done your homework and are covered and can prove to them the host is legit.

from the post above it looks like theres a lot of negotiating going on and not any agreements made.

a post in these forums does not satisfy my curiosity and the only thing that would is confirmation from the licensing companies them selves confirming my questions.

as mentioned in my earlier post.
it may well be all legal and above board and i am not suggesting otherwise and i wish you all the best with your ventures.



ps . apologies to the thread starter as it was never my intention to take over the thread,
Nick@ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 12:00   #15
nomadrush
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
Hi Nick@ss

Let me reassure you with regard to the PPL licence at Web Radio World, as I am a Director of the company and the man responsible for negotiating the licence directly.

Most world licencing agencies are in agreement that the Internet is very hard to Police, but many agencies are now trying to pursue broadcasters who illegally use music on what are effectively "pirate stations".

PPL have agreed therefore to provide Web Radio World with a global cover licence thta allow our clients to broadcast anywhere in the world LEGALLY! The cost averages at around £15 per month payable by Direct Debit. However this price is reflective of your listener hours, so when you thousands of listeners, the PPL rate increases pro-rate.

MCPS/PRS are negotaiting with us for a similar deal at the moment.

PPL covers record company royalties whereas MCPS/PRS Alliance covers songwriters and Producers - and you need BOTH licences.

We have a BMI world licence at the moment alongside PPL which currently covers the North America area.

Finally, companies like LoudCity and Live365 as I understand it, are NOT world legal. Their licences only cover specific territories and you are at risk of legal action if you broadcast outside of those territories on their licences.

I hope that clarifies the position

Ross Hemsworth
UK Group Managing Director
Web Radio World
www.webradioworld.com
Streaming from US$20 a month!!
nomadrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 14:35   #16
Dredd
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 61
Hi Ross & Freinds,

How wonderful to see you sputtering nonsense on this forum too.

The “World Wide License” is a fabrication of the PPL.

Anyone that does not have to operate under the PPL should think twice about getting this kind of license, because it’s completely meaningless to you, particularly if you are in the US.

You will not find any US broadcasters (other than a few that WRW snake oiled), large or small, paying the PPL directly because they know it’s wrong and they refuse to over pay royalties.

For US broadcasters the net result is you are paying for royalties twice, through both SoundExchange and the PPL. SoundExchange already gives the PPL money for applicable performances. If you are located in the US you are going to need a SoundExchange license, no exceptions.

How the money moves for international broadcasts is a complicated subject and one that is to be solved by rights organizations working together, not a lone rights organization passing a hat around and/or threatening international law suits.

If you aren’t under the jurisdiction of the PPL you should not get involved with them. Bad ideas gain legitimacy everytime someone signs a poorly written contract, so again, don’t get involved unless you have to answer directly to the PPL. They need to go through the proper channels to collect money, just as we have to go through the proper channels to broadcast.

Check out this article about the PPL threatening to sue every broadcaster on the planet. In short they expect every web caster in the world to answer to UK law. Is this the mindset you want to support?

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/wee...766532,00.html

P.S.

I can’t speak for Live365, but they are a DiMA member, as is LoudCity. We both access to the best legal advice regarding webcasting. If this PPL thing were a legitimate issue there would be a lot more buzz about it.

Last edited by Dredd; 3rd November 2006 at 15:19.
Dredd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 14:51   #17
nomadrush
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
You should Dread Dredd!

Oh dear another haunting from another forum you sad stalker!

The PPL WORLWIDE LICENCE is so called because PPL are the only licencing agency in the world to be able to currently offer a FULL world licence.

LoudCity and Live365 are NOT legal when their transmissions are outside the USA, and anyone who believes otherwise should contact the relevant licencing authorities or the RIAA. I met with the head of PPL only a few weeks ago and HE told me that!!!!

http://www.riaa.com/default.asp

I would pose the question of our competitors that "are you maybe a little worried by our strong licencing position and your potential loss of custmers to the more legal Web Radio World??"

Ross Hemsworth
UK Group Managing Director
Web Radio World Ltd
www.webradioworld.com
nomadrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:00   #18
nomadrush
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
Advertising

I would also add, that we not only ALLOW advertising on Web Radio World (unlike Live365) but we positively encourage it and share income across the stations we host.

I believe that when we have 500 stations with a large cross demographic audience, we will be able to help our clients fund their stations and expansion by their cut of that potentially sizeable advertising revenue.

We may not all like running adverts, but we ALL need the income that advertising produces if we are to expand and grow!

We want to HELP our clients grow and earn from their projects.

Ross Hemsworth
UK Group Managing Director
Web Radio World Ltd
www.webradioworld.com
nomadrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:03   #19
dotme
Moderator
 
dotme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,024
So is this basically a spam thread now?
Quote:
Originally posted by WebRadioWorld
...with companies like Live365 and loud city who are selling nothing, you’re not legal with either of these licenses....It’s a scam if you ask me.
If you showed that statement to your attorney, I'd bet he would be rubbing his hands in delight.

I'm no legal expert, but it seems to me you may have just maligned Live365. Your lawyer's going to get rich defending you when their attorneys file a suit against your company for making false and defamatory statements against their business in a public forum. Bet their pockets are deeper than yours... Good luck with that.
dotme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:13   #20
sputnik radio
Major Dude
 
sputnik radio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 871
wheres my popcorn.
sputnik radio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:17   #21
Dredd
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 61
Ross,

The forum I'm referring to is the LoudCity forum. You know, the one where we gave you permission to advertise your services, then politely asked you not to cross post, then you threw a tantrum…so we got a little heavy handed after that.

Of course the head of the PPL told you this is how it is, they want money, and of course the RIAA says your have to seek rights internationally. It's not their place to say they own the world, nor is the PPL’s place to arbitrarily start collecting performances from any webcaster in the world.

The real question is who is going to administer such rights. The solution is more concrete international laws and rights organizations working closer together.

I have the PPL contracts here in front of me and for a US broadcaster they far from fair, full of holes, potentially far more expensive than SoundExchange and above all meaningless. As I said the PPL already gets money from US licensed webcasters, we aren’t paying them twice.

Pump out all the static you want. The reality of the situation is what it is. US webcasters are currently ok.
Dredd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:21   #22
sputnik radio
Major Dude
 
sputnik radio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 871
Oh i get it now.

This is a us against uk thing.

I was wondering what was going on.
sputnik radio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:29   #23
dotme
Moderator
 
dotme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,024
Quote:
Originally posted by sputnik radio
wheres my popcorn.
Hey Sputnik - How ya doin?

I think ultimately, you do have to answer to the authorities in the country you live in. PPL is maybe a bit unrealistic when it comes to rates and what they believe to be their jurisdiction. As a UK company, they really don't get to control US markets - as much as I'm sure they'd like to.

As long as a webcaster pays royalties, what's the problem? Is the same music sent to an Englishman's ears somehow worth more than if heard by an American? What about an Englishman who tunes in from the USA? Or an American tuning in from the UK?

If the PPL object to overseas streams entering the UK, maybe they should petition the British government to force UK ISPs to filter them out. That's what China does, isn't it? Perhaps the UK should become like China and prevent it's citizens from being able to access content from overseas.

Licensing web streams by territory is frought with problems, because even the best GeoIP database isn't 100% accurate. The industry is its own worst enemy. It's so complicated and expensive that - let's face it - 99% of the streamers are totally unlicensed. The best way for these societies to change that are to back off on the greed, and the paperwork. The result, for them, would be a drastic increase in compliance and revenue...

I hope this thread doesn't deteriorate into a slamming match, because that does nothing to further webcasting, legal or otherwise.
dotme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:30   #24
sputnik radio
Major Dude
 
sputnik radio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 871
i looks like i stirred up the hornets nest. My apologies to the original poster.

In my opinion it's all bass ackwards.

Arist should be paying us to play their damned music. So they can cell CD's and what not.

The whole world is backwards of how it should be. You talk about rights? What about my Right to be a broadcaster and not have to shell out every dime I have to do it? what about that right? why do the rights always benifit the ass holes with all the money?
sputnik radio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:39   #25
nomadrush
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
Hi Dotme - where did you get that quote from, becauyse I can't see to find the original posting?

Ross
nomadrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:43   #26
dotme
Moderator
 
dotme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,024
Quote:
Originally posted by sputnik radio
My apologies to the original poster.

In my opinion it's all bass ackwards.

Arist should be paying us to play their damned music. So they can cell CD's and what not.

The whole world is backwards of how it should be. You talk about rights? What about my Right to be a broadcaster and not have to shell out every dime I have to do it? what about that right? why do the rights always benifit the ass holes with all the money?
No argument from me. And also apologies to the original poster. This thread got totally hijacked. lol.

Quote:
Originally posted by nomadrush
Hi Dotme - where did you get that quote from, becauyse I can't see to find the original posting?

Ross
Hi Ross

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....67#post2055467

Paragraph 7
dotme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:46   #27
nomadrush
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
Dredd

I don't think I threw any tantrums, altough I have kept all the communications from your heavy-handed somewhat one sided forum moderators!

Facts are facts Dredd, and I look forward to the soon to come first UK court action against a US Internet broadcaster by the UK based collection agency MCPS/PRS which will set the court precedent for future law.

The regionalisation of collection agencies makes it very difficult if not impossible for them to currently police worldwide broadcasters, so it's no wonder they all want to do business with US as we have the software in place NOW to handle collection information for them and report accordingly. This makes their job a lot easier.

I understand your reluctance to agree with me as a competitor, but perhaps if you could prove your are legal we may be interested in buying your company!
nomadrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 15:59   #28
dotme
Moderator
 
dotme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,024
Quote:
Originally posted by nomadrush
The regionalisation of collection agencies makes it very difficult if not impossible for them to currently police worldwide broadcasters, so it's no wonder they all want to do business with US as we have the software in place NOW to handle collection information for them and report accordingly. This makes their job a lot easier.
Well, that's great - but I still don't understand how you know for sure where a listener is from. GeoIP isn't accurate, and what about an American tourist tuning in from Paris, France? Who gets the royalties for that person? It's okay if you don't want to answer that. I was just curious.

I also don't think I understand why an artist would receive different compensation for use of their work based on the nationality of the ears that hear it. Maybe I'm dense - it is Friday after all - but I simply don't get the justification for that.
dotme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 16:07   #29
nomadrush
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
Policing the Internet

Hi Dotme

This is one of the main reasons that regional collection agencies have been slow to negotiate with other worldwide agencies, because very few know excatly how to Police this large international network with so many independent broadcasters. It is true to say that IP addresses do not always show the correct country, so it is far from an exact science.

That said, PPL have now negotiated such an agreement with other licensing agencies worldwide, on the basis of a 75% report and collection is better than no collection at all, and our softwrae allows us to submit such a report monthly, quarterly and annually as required.

Let's face it, FM stations are geolocked yet KMFM in Kent can be picked up in a car in France but who would know and who would report it? Even if they did, how could the French collection agency prove someone was actually listening in their licence territory?

It's still a very grey area, but together with the licensing agencies, it is my belief that Web Radio World is probably making the best advances to date.

Ross
nomadrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 16:21   #30
dotme
Moderator
 
dotme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,024
Wow - I just read that Guardian article.

Quote:
the PPL's rate for web-only broadcasters (that is, not traditional radio stations simulcasting their output) is .000503p per listener per track per stream. It sounds cheap, but Tom Lousada, founder of the Association of Streaming Media Companies (Asmec), points out that a web-only station with 5,000 listeners would be paying approximately £1.7m in rights fees annually, an economic model that is clearly not sustainable.
Holy shit! They must be taking some wicked drugs there at the PPL. No wonder there are so many webcasters that pay no royalties at all.
dotme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 16:35   #31
nomadrush
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
PPL

Hi again Dotme

Like most licencing agencies they have now realised that they need to judge Internet stations differently and now look at a rate based on "streaming listener hours" so some stations like my "Net Talk World" pay as little as £120 a year in PPL rates as they have limited music output and relatively small audiences. However that will grow significantly over the next 12 - 18 months.

That said, most of the online stations I know struggle to hit 100 listeners per show, so none of those need to be paying over £100 a year individually.

MCPS/PRS however are still currently charging on an amount up to 20% of advertising revenue income as well as a listner numbers rate and they know that this HAS to change.

At the moment many stations stay illegal because they think they are untouchable, but that again, will change very soon and a few scapegoats will be made to pay the price in court, so that the agencies can "frighten others" into joining up! This happened a while back with music downloading that shut down various sites who were offering free music downloads.

Trouble is, copyright theft is a CRIMINAL offence not a civil offence and this means that those "scapegoats" may face a custodial term if the courts decide to make examples of them!

Ross
nomadrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 16:56   #32
Dredd
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 61
Sounds like you have everything covered.

Dredd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 17:06   #33
nomadrush
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
Yes Dredd we do, although your tagline on your signature could be deemed as very legally misleading!
nomadrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 17:11   #34
dotme
Moderator
 
dotme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,024
I tend to agree with Sputnik. People invest their time and money to create a station that essentially in most cases promotes artists and leads to album sales.

Most stations operate at a loss - viewed as a hobby, not a business. If a station shows they made the effort to do the right thing, obtained the necessary licenses in their country, and paid royalties as required under their local laws, I'd be shocked if any judge or jury would find in favor of the plaintiff. Not when there are so many stations that don't bother even trying to be legit at all.

What's next? Maybe the PPL will be telling you not to turn your stereo up, because if the neighbors hear it, you'll have to pay royalties. Better keep those car windows rolled up too... or you'll owe money for the bloke at the last intersection who heard 35 seconds of "Shake ya ass" as you made that left turn.
dotme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 17:16   #35
nomadrush
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
By the way - thanks Sputnik Radio for telling people how great our service is - much appreciated! We endeavour to offer the very best service 24/7.

Our services mean that single operators can stream online from just US$5 a month - now i'd say THAT is "affordable"! (And that includes our free starter package!!) So perhaps we should have the right to use "affordable" on OUR tag line lol!
nomadrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 17:18   #36
WebRadioWorld
Junior Member
 
WebRadioWorld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 13
Send a message via Yahoo to WebRadioWorld
I have to agree with dotme, PPL is just going too far.
And technical if you are playing your music loud enough and it can be heard in a public place and other people are listening to it don't you have to pay?
WebRadioWorld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 17:25   #37
sputnik radio
Major Dude
 
sputnik radio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 871
well I know one thing. Internet radio is not going away . And I think if WRW can break new ground in bringing forth global licensing in some fashion then I say thats great. I have no problems with any company that is trying to push the envelope and to transform the way internet radio is managed. Kudos to anyone that can manage to do it.

as far as the comment about somebody hearing your music and then them having to pay royalites I look at it like this. A Listener to me constitutes a device that is recieving the transmission. Thats the way I view it anyway. I could listen to a broacast in a room full of people.

Also it works both ways. what if you where listening to the same broadcast on two devices which filled 2 listner slots but only one person was listening.

That is one of those grey areas and until precedent is set Im not too worried about it.

The agencies that regulate licensing are going to have to eventually globalize under one license. Who the hell wants to just broadcast to US listners? Not me.

Most of my listeners are from germany , poland and russia
sputnik radio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 17:27   #38
nomadrush
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
PPL

Well to be honest I agree with that too - it's all a step to far which is why I have had to "educate" the licencing agencies in a way, to understand the plight of the Internet broadcaster.

Most online stations are currently small one man operations with very little budget, and many WANT to be legal but just can't afford to be, which is why we offer the monthly Direct Debit to ease the cost, something even PPL don't do, with a direct licence you have to pay quarterly in advance!

Licence agencies have to understand that sometimes 75% of the cake is better than no cake at all!

Ross
nomadrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 17:37   #39
NJK
The Frisian Spamfighter
 
NJK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: a real Frisian hometown
Posts: 14,939
it's a giant soap bubble if you ask me
a world wide license???

come on , what's next prove that santa claus really is living on the northpole??

we can't even agree on a world wide deal on the enviroment.
laws about streaming copyrighted material are different from country to country.
while they hardly pay anything in Canada , the UK sucks broadcaster almost dry.
and we have to believe that such a thing can be handled world wide.

Each Thursday a new show on Celtica Radio with Darkwave music.
**************************************************************************

WINAMPSHOUTCAST
NJK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2006, 17:44   #40
WebRadioWorld
Junior Member
 
WebRadioWorld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 13
Send a message via Yahoo to WebRadioWorld
Your thinking local and that Gov'ts own the copyrights they don't. You don't need to get the countries to agree you only need to get the Big Record companies to agree.

Because when it comes down to it, this is all about them and nothing else. Don't lose sight of who gets the cash in the end.

Do you think Sony cares if it gets money from the UK, US, China or Chile? I doubt it I bet they just want their money.
WebRadioWorld is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Shoutcast > Shoutcast Discussions

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump