Old 5th November 2006, 10:06   #81
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Quote:
Gentlemen I didn’t come here to sell you anything or take anything away from your respective business. I came to set the record straight after being attacked first by nick@ss.
again i did not attack you or anyone,

i merely recommended that sputnik was sure he was covered,

i also said that it may be perfectly legit but you seem to be mmissing that point.
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Old 5th November 2006, 10:33   #82
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Jackass?

Spaceplay

Your insults do you no favours and make you no friends!

You should never burn your bridges in this business, it is far too small an industry and one day you may find yourself having to work with someone you have previously insulted! As for calling ME full of shit - take a look in the mirror little lad before insulting people you do not even know.

As for working for an AM station - are we supposed to be impressed by that? LOL I spent years on TV and working for the BBC but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to online radio - it's a whole different ball-game.

Looking at your listening figures Spaceplay - I think you may be better off spending time trying to get someone listening to your station, rather than making enemies on this forum.
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Old 5th November 2006, 10:58   #83
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i think someone mentioned professionalism ,when is that going to kick in then ?

BW

ps. popcorn is on standby

Without open minds the world will die. Open yours and correct the mistakes you are making right now.
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Old 5th November 2006, 11:04   #84
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Womble

Professsionalism means that one is good and professional at the job they do, it doesn't mean that they should take insults from idiots without response.

Ross
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Old 5th November 2006, 11:07   #85
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I think we should end this thread here before it gets really out of hand, and just like the Hulk, Spaceplay wouldn't like me when I really get angry lol!

I will finish by saying this:

Anyone who wishes to be licenced for the majority of world territories and wants streaming that starts from US$5 a month, then contact dan.brewington@webradioworld.com.

Anyone that does not believe what our PPL licence offers, should contact PPL directly and ask!

And finally, anyone who believes anything that Spaceplay is spouting - seek counselling lol!

Ross
WILL POST FOR BEER! lol
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Old 5th November 2006, 11:36   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by bored_womble
i think someone mentioned professionalism ,when is that going to kick in then ?

BW

ps. popcorn is on standby
\

Ross can't because i seem to have hit a nerve here.

As for me burning bridges , NAH i don't care if nobody is listening to my station
it's only a hobby for me, i don't have any intentions to make it to a proffesional station.
it's a test that got out of control and i don't want to stop it.

for your profesionalism , well it's nowhere to be found.
your postings in this forum made it perfectly clear that you sir are nowhere near a gentleman and can not prove what you are saying.

you just scared more people away than i have in the almost 3 1/2 years that i have been active in this forum.
your total lack of professionalism has made you a laugh here.
and sending me a PM to challange me to start a chat session man to man , why??

if you can not prove your point here in a civil and mannered way . what's the point in starting to chat.

I only insulted you when you made your remark about me getting into legal difficuties in the UK if i only had a lisence in the Netherlands, that showed your stupidity
nothing more nothing less
ask anybody who has some legal knowledge, paying for playing copyrighted materials gives you the right to stream on the internet fully legal no matter where somebody is listening.

by posting that you just made it so that it looked ( and still looks) like a giant scam.

nothing more nothing less kid.
the saying is
if you can't stand the heat you shouldn't go near the fire

you started this fire by making claims, as soon as somebody started to ask questions about this you started to attack them.
now i know that attacking can be the best defence it also shows that you have something to hide.

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Old 5th November 2006, 11:46   #87
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Spaceplay

Ok Spaceplay - the use of the word "scam" in association with my business has now landed you in the hot water you seem to wish to bathe in.

Ross
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Old 5th November 2006, 11:50   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by WebRadioWorld
FIRST: My mention of SCAM was to the licensing of music and having to have 2 licenses and only being covered in a single country due to each countries laws....But in no way did I intend for any remarks to indicate that any company was intentionally misleading their clients.

Now for you HATERS out there the following territories are currently signatories to the IFPI reciprocal web casting scheme and therefore form the Extended Territory referred to in the PPL (the United Kingdom collection agency)and make up Web Radio World limited web casting licenses.

CZECH REPUBLIC - DENMARK - DOMINICAN REPUBLIC - ECUADOR - ESTONIA - FRANCE - FINLAND - GERMANY - GREECE - HONG KONG
HUNGARY - ICELAND - ITALY - MALAYSIA - MEXICO - NETHERLANDS
NEW ZEALAND - NORWAY - PANAMA - PARAGUAY - PERU - PORTUGAL
POLAND - SINGAPORE - SLOVENIA - SPAIN - SWEDEN - THAILAND
URUGUAY - UNITIED KINGDOM - UNITED STATES

HMMM over 30 countries all with agreements with PPL
Hey Dan - thanks for the clarification. That was a nice response. I hear what you're saying, but the agreement isn't with PPL, its with each other. And the IFPI is a "reciprocal" agreement, right?

That's why my understanding is that royalties collected by SoundExchange for British artists (Not listeners) are paid to PPL and royalties collected by PPL for American artists are paid to SoundExchange.

I'm no lawyer. But that's how I thought a reciprocal agreement was supposed to work. If it isn't, then whoever came up with it is an idiot.

I know you can't answer this, but why does PPL see this as a problem? Their "clients" are the musicians, and provided those musicians are compensated, then I don't see the problem.

Everyone in this discussion that runs a station wants to be legal. Which makes us the minority. But if my provider pays US performance rights organizations all royalties for my stream based on rates established in my country, and that money is then distributed to artists all over the world, I'd say the system is working.
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Old 5th November 2006, 11:55   #89
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Re: Spaceplay

Quote:
Originally posted by nomadrush
Ok Spaceplay - the use of the word "scam" in association with my business has now landed you in the hot water you seem to wish to bathe in.
Ross
Now I need some popcorn. By the way, "is" and "looks like" have two very different legal meanings (and outcomes) when it comes to damage claims.
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Old 5th November 2006, 11:59   #90
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Legal?

Hi Dotme

Stock up on the popcorn Dotme! I have no intention of making some lawyer even richer. I have my own way of dealing with idiots lol

Ross
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Old 5th November 2006, 11:59   #91
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pass me that popcorn when your done please dotme.
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Old 5th November 2006, 12:03   #92
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LOL!

I've thrown the popcorn, i'm now on pure dynamite chew sticks!

Ross
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Old 5th November 2006, 12:11   #93
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Well, it's 7am here... and popcorn doesn't go well with coffee. I'll settle for a nice hot cup of Starbucks.
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Old 5th November 2006, 12:33   #94
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ADVERTISING

Now many of us don't particularly like having to run advertising on our stations, but let's face it, ads bring in much needed revenue to pay the bills and even produce a profit for your station....

Well another service Web Radio World Ltd offers is to sell advertising across our stations and divide the revenue pro-rata on listener hours.

The big advertisers and agencies are not interetsed in single small online stations but they are VERY interested in the big groups of stations with viewable demographic breakdowns, and we believe therefore, that within two years, all of our stations could be doing pretty well from advertising and sponsorship income.

Another good reason to host your Shoutcast streams with Web Radio World.

Ross
(Will post for beer! lol)
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Old 5th November 2006, 12:44   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by dotme
I'm no lawyer. But that's how I thought a reciprocal agreement was supposed to work. If it isn't, then whoever came up with it is an idiot.
Our agreement is with PPL though and I understand what you are saying. We are able to cover the 30+ countries only through the PPL and the United States through BMI

Not the best system and one of the reasons we are just in the final phase of testing and it wasn’t available on our site.

I am the guy that has to make it possible to collect all of the stats and put them in the right format for PPL/BMI and other agencies and for that matter record companies.

I am not as eloquent as some of you here and to be honest its about putting music and station owners first for me.

I don't want to have a hassle with anyone here, heck I am married I get enough hassle just for breathing in the morning. Seriously let's put the music first, let’s stop attacking each other and attack the people actually responsible for all these headaches.

There are more online stations then any one company here could handle and it is a very big pie more then enough to go around, working in unison for the same goal would benefit all of us.

We have already proven over the last 7 years that working against each other doesn’t work.

Suggested reading http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/062402/
Remember the big fish are out to screw us, and they love that we fight here.

Let's not give them the satisfaction.
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Old 5th November 2006, 13:26   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by spaceplay
Yes i can
everything they play on my server is covered by my payment for royalties to the 2 agencies here

So Ross his statement really made him look like a jackass when he told me in a post the I could get legal action taken against me when my stream was heard in the UK.

this shows he knows shit about this topic and is himself also full of shit.


read my statement on a serious businessman!!
are you absolutey sure you can have over seas dejays?

I mean if I where to broadcast into your station from the US would I be covered under your license?


I don't think so unless the holland has more liberal laws than the US over this. LC clearly tells you that if you are licensed through them that you can only broadcast from within the United states. PERIOD. NO EXCEPTIONS>

I figured it would be the same rules for HOLLAND.

Of course I could be wrong.
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Old 5th November 2006, 13:30   #97
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Licensing is based on the origination of the broadcast, so if a presenter is based outside of Holland he will be repsonsible to the licensing agency in the country from which he broadcasts.

Ross
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Old 5th November 2006, 13:37   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by nomadrush
Licensing is based on the origination of the broadcast, so if a presenter is based outside of Holland he will be repsonsible to the licensing agency in the country from which he broadcasts.

Ross
Thats what I thought. And thats why I love you guys because not only is your stream host reliable and affordable but you enable me to have dejays in europe and elswhere.

Oh yeah any idea about Russia. I noticed that in your PPL Russia is not covered. I kinda think they are a blackmarket society over there anywway and may not even have any laws . I dont know.
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Old 5th November 2006, 13:56   #99
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Licence

Hi Sputnik

We are continuing negotiations with a number of licencing agencies as well as PPL, MCPS/PRS, Sound Exchange, ASCAP, SESAC, BMI, RIAA and others and it is only a matter of time before all world licencing agencies come together over Internet radio regulation.

As Dan said, there are some limited territories that have not yet joined the world cover initiative, but it really is only a matter of time. (Even for Russia!)

Licensing covers two areas - the main one being RECORD COMPANIES (PPL) and the other being the Writers (MCPS/PRS) and unfortunately they have to be negotaited seperately at the moment.

You know what they say - "Rome wasn't built in a day"! lol

Ross
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Old 5th November 2006, 14:01   #100
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thats cool. I was just wondering about Russia. I go over there every year to visit family infact me and my wife have an aparment in Saint Petersburg that we still own the rights too over there. Her parents had it privatized and put in my wifes name back a few years ago so it's ours till we sell the rights on it. Just wanted to know what I might have to do while in Russia. I guess I could just get one of my other dejays to spin while im there .

Like I said about Russia. I kinda think they are a blackmarket society anyway. Every store or mall you go into over there sells blackmarket cd's and dvd's and whatnot. Heck movies are availble in Russia for sale over the counter like months before they even are released to the movie theatres here in the US. So im not sure how they do things over there. They are kind of in a vacuum when it comes to international agreements and stuff.
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Old 5th November 2006, 14:10   #101
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Yes it is very blackmarket and has a Mafia style underground that control a lot of what goes on. Although to be fair, that also happens in many other countries although much quieter! It has been known for many years that well known underworld figures have strong interests in the world of media and entertainment, including many record labels ellegedly!

I spent many years in the sports industry and in particular boxing promotion, and was dealing with these kind of figures on a day to day basis.

Ross
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Old 5th November 2006, 14:17   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by nomadrush
Yes it is very blackmarket and has a Mafia style underground that control a lot of what goes on. Although to be fair, that also happens in many other countries although much quieter! It has been known for many years that well known underworld figures have strong interests in the world of media and entertainment, including many record labels ellegedly!

I spent many years in the sports industry and in particular boxing promotion, and was dealing with these kind of figures on a day to day basis.

Ross
WEll if you ever need any help negotiating with the Ruskies let me know. I am intermediate level Russian Speaker and my wife is a natural born Russian fluent in both Russian and English.

We could help you with translating any documents or communications if you ever need it.

Of course you will find most people in Russia that do business outside of Russis speak english as well.

Good luck.
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Old 5th November 2006, 14:37   #103
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Thanks - much appreciated

Ross
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Old 5th November 2006, 14:48   #104
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HEY GUYS!!!

ANYONE WHO KNOWS FEEL FREE TO JUMP IN.

I was wondering about something semi-related to this discussion.

Say for instance (hypothetically of course) I where to install like several massive hardrives into my home computer all hooked up on a super fast FIOS or whatever and I had my computer streaming say out of Dallas streaming to my shoutcast server in germany or wherever.

Anyway instead of having Dejays around the world that actually stream from their homes in whatever country they are in . INstead I would have it to where they can upload their playlist into my computer remotely using ftp or something. Then they would take remote control of my winamp that is on my computer here in Dallas. And they Deejay off my computer but they are in their country.

Would then the dejay in question be covered under the US licenses or would he still have to be covered in his country?

I mean hes still doing the same thing. Still playing the same music the only difference is he does not stream it off his computer . Instead he connects to my PC and controls my winamp and uses his own playlist. I would of course have several huge hard drives that can contain like thousands of songs to support a variety of programming.

So anyone want to jump on that one?



You see this is why internet radio has to be transformed from what it now. There are so many possible variables to consider that just completly fly either under or over the radar and there are no clear guidelines on how to handle such things.
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Old 6th November 2006, 10:45   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by nomadrush
Licensing is based on the origination of the broadcast, so if a presenter is based outside of Holland he will be repsonsible to the licensing agency in the country from which he broadcasts.
the origine of broadcast is the server
a dj has nothing more that a player and a pluging.

/ me wonders where Microsoft would have been today, if Bill Gates would have had such a bad attitude towards future customers when he started out..............

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Old 6th November 2006, 10:54   #106
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Spaceplay

Write out 1000 times "I know nothing about online broadcasting licencing law!"

Twit!
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Old 6th November 2006, 12:07   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by spaceplay
the origine of broadcast is the server
a dj has nothing more that a player and a pluging.

/ me wonders where Microsoft would have been today, if Bill Gates would have had such a bad attitude towards future customers when he started out..............
No spaceplay. Go ask over at LC and they will tell you the same.

If the origination of the server where the license begins and end than i guess im a german broadcaster then living in the US.

the origination of the stream meaning (YOUR DJ) is where licensing needs to begin. If your DJ is in the US or UK or Germany then you need to be licensed in each of those places. Thats why these laws suck.

But fortunatly for me I can have dejays in 30 countries.
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Old 6th November 2006, 12:38   #108
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heres another one for you legal buffs to wrap your head around. I see nobody cared to dive in and discuss the overseas dj remotely controlling my winamp locally issue.

Heres one for you.

scenerio:

Im in the US my SC server is in Germany. I am licensed say for instance in the US with someone like L365 or LC and my local internet drops my connection so my sc_trans wich is on my SC server in germany loads the back up file and plays a song or two while i get my local connection back up running.

So am i broadcasting out of the US or germany?


LOL
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Old 6th November 2006, 12:58   #109
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Starting Point

Licencing agencies base their calculations on the start point of the transmission - the point where the music was played out from, which in most cases is where the presenter is based.

If your server is based abroad and music is uploading from a source there, then effectively that is the country in which your music is orignating.

Hope that answers your question

Ross
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Old 6th November 2006, 20:26   #110
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have contacted ppl regarding this, they say they have no ppl licence but are in NEGOTIONS so nothing finalised at the moment
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Old 6th November 2006, 20:57   #111
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Re: Spaceplay

Quote:
Originally posted by nomadrush
Write out 1000 times "I know nothing about online broadcasting licencing law!"

Twit!
get yourself a decent translation program
and translate the following

1 - Muziek op Internet
Via het world-wide-web zijn zeer veel radiostations actief.
Hierbij kan het muzieksignaal uitsluitend via het internet worden gedistribueerd maar ook gelijktijdig met het traditionele radio-signaal. Een en ander gebeurt via de techniek "Streaming-Audio".
Belangrijk hierbij is dat de luisteraar op geen enkele wijze invloed kan uitoefenen op de te beluisteren muziek of de muziek kan downloaden.
Met andere woorden: de muziek kan alleen worden beluisterd !

De vergoeding wordt vastgesteld aan de hand van het listeners-log en de playlist en bedraagt
€ 0,00086 per luisteraar / per track met een minimumvergoeding van € 538,- per jaar / per kanaal.

De SENA vergoedingen zijn op jaarbasis, vrij van BTW en worden jaarlijks aangepast met het Consumenten Prijs Indexcijfer, reeks totalen / alle huishoudens.
----------------------------------------------------------


Mag ik zomaar een radiostation op internet beginnen?
Ja. U hebt wel toestemming nodig van Buma/Stemra voor het draaien van muziek op het internet. Voor particulieren geldt een ander tarief dan voor bedrijven. Houd er rekening mee dat u aan Buma/Stemra alleen een vergoeding betaalt voor de componisten en tekstschrijvers van een werk. Voor gebruik van de cd moet u apart toestemming vragen en een vergoeding betalen aan SENA. Informatie hierover vindt u op

And tell me where exactly it states that I am not covered in case a dj makes a show on my server!!

it isn't there FOOL so shut up , you don't know shit about the DUTCH laws regarding internet streaming.

I have nothing to do with either ppl or whatever organisation that you have to deal with.

SO start writing
I'm a stupid kid that can only attack other yet i still have to start a bussines but made my name already being as stupid as stupid can be!!!!!

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Old 6th November 2006, 22:12   #112
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Spaceplay

Spacetwat - How about 12 rounds in the ring some time sonny? I think it's the only damn language you are going to understand. You cerainly don't seem to have a grasp of English!

Now get off my case before I really get angry with you!

You seem out to ruin our business with your stupid and pointless postings and you are now making this very personal.

I hope to meet you soon and put forward a different point of view that you may finally understand!

Not all businessmen deal with idiots in the same way you ass!
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Old 6th November 2006, 22:13   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan159
have contacted ppl regarding this, they say they have no ppl licence but are in NEGOTIONS so nothing finalised at the moment
If this is true... Sputnik may not be licensed. lol.
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Old 7th November 2006, 00:42   #114
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i just wanted to add my 2 cents...

this thread is AWESOME!!!

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Old 7th November 2006, 02:28   #115
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Spaceplay if duetch law covers you to have foreign dejays then you could be a very rich man. You could offer a Global World Universal license. All you would have to do is set up a bunch of servers in holland and have them all licensed to your deutch authority.

Then you just sell shoutcast hosting till the cows come home to deejays and broadcasters all over the earth and they would all be covered under your one license.
Man you should be rich by now.
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Old 7th November 2006, 08:18   #116
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PPL

Re Nathan159's comment - I'm not sure who he spoke to at PPL but he definitely has his facts wrong!

Also Web Radio World has other licnce cover including BMI for the USA and North American territories, and as we are in negotiation with various collection agencies with a view to bringing them all together, it is unlikely that any agency would want to take action aganst any of our clients whilst we are attempting to make them all world legal!

I think it's time this thread was brought to a close - I think those who want to be world legal should contact us reference their hosting and streaming, and those who don't believe that we have the best intentions in this area should just go and do their own thing and stop mud-slinging. Like I said before, this is a very small industry and it is only a fool who burns his bridges.

Ross
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Old 7th November 2006, 09:13   #117
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As far as i'm concerned, stating that it would be foolish for one licensing agency in a territory to bring legal action against yourselves because you are in the process of gaining international licensing does not mean that you can say that you are legal. Because you aren't. Not to say a court case wouldn't be a cakewalk since you have shown willing to license, but that isn't the point.

I don't know the details of your negotiations, and neither does anyone else. Many people have tried to set up international licensing before and many have failed. Thats BEFORE even working with the hosting/streaming side of the business.

Whatever the case, this thread does nothing to prove anything other than music licensing is a clusterfuck that isn't going to be solved anytime soon.

If you want people to not question your motives/business I suggest that you complete your negotiations, gain your world licensing rights, and then come back here and prove how you were right.

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Old 7th November 2006, 09:19   #118
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Wrong!

Craig - They wouldn't believe us even then so what's the point.

Ross
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Old 7th November 2006, 09:34   #119
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so your saying you have ppl worldwide cover then are you? all negotians have been sorted if im wrong! looked at your website nothing there nor about bmi!!! also looking at the whole thread abusing/insulting potentially new/future customers! and the way you have handled this is in my eyes is not right!! i would be disgusted! you'll have no customers! but thats my opinion!
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Old 7th November 2006, 09:44   #120
nomadrush
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 51
Nathan - if I have customers or not is not your concern, and to be honest as this is only one small piece of my business interests worldwide, it is of little consequence.

However if we do end up controlling this market sector through acqusitions thene you may have no choice but to work with us so please do not burn your bridges!
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