Old 3rd March 2007, 11:51   #41
fc*uk
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MegaRock --- my instinct tells me that you have seen this, but in case you have not...

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=266981

collaborate maybe? That way the both of you are not inventing the same wheel.
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Old 3rd March 2007, 12:39   #42
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I think it's time we all find servers overseas somewhere like Barbados or the marshall isands or the isle of man or wherever the hell we can find that does not enforce laws with collection societies.

If there are any millionaires out there living in a country or on an island that does not enforce these laws this could be a great money making oppurtunity for you. HINT HINT.


PS> Does anyone know of anywhere that does not enforce collection society regualtions? I am going to be doing some research on it. If anyone has any information PLEASE LET ME KNOW IN A PM or in this post.

I am going to put a list together of alternative places to possible put servers up. If soundexchange wants to fight. I say we give them the fight of their lives. IM CALLING ALL SHOUTCAST HOST TO SEEK OUT SERVERS IN COUNTRIES THAT DO NOT ENFORCE OR PAY ANY ATTENTION TO COLLECTION SOCIETIES>

I know they are out there. Just got to pin down whic ones.
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Old 3rd March 2007, 13:17   #43
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Sutnik --- though your intentions are admirable, it does not matter where the server is. What matters is the countries that people tune in from.

If you have canadian listeners, then you need to pay canadian royalities; if you have UK listeners, then you need to pay their systems, etc ... etc.

So the true solution is what we all have to move and sewar that we will only tune in from countries that do not enforce these laws...
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Old 3rd March 2007, 13:24   #44
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But if that's the case then we would have to pay royalites all over the world. I have listneres in almost every country that has internet. If they want to enforce that rule then each individual country would have the obligation to block all streams coming into their country that was not licensed appropriatetly in that country.

My point here is . If your stream is orginating from a country that does not participate in these laws then the collection agencies would have a hard time getting these non participating countries to comply with their demands.

However fortunately for me. My server is in canada and I am covered under PPL UK which does collect for over 30 countries. The major ones anyway.
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Old 3rd March 2007, 13:37   #45
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And all this time, I thought that was the reason why you went with the licensing.... so you do not have to pay royalities all over the world.

Granted, in the state that things are in, I got the feeling that if you have licensing in the country that you live in, then no one is going to sue you too badly ... however, technically you do need to be licensed everywhere someone tunes in.

That is why there is a market for companies such as Stream Solutions to sell geolocked servers. Ever try to tune in to some old UK stations of long ago? You can't do it because they are not paying the royalities for people in the states to listen...

Its just the way the game goes and personally I am sick of it. Too much BS and too many hoops for small fish to jump through. Costs too much money. Then you gotta get hosting on top of that. People have made damn sure that it is nearly impossible to make money at this or even break even so people would be discouraged from getting into it.

What ever happened to freedom of speech... technically this is our way of "communicating" to the world...
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Old 3rd March 2007, 13:46   #46
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Originally posted by fc*uk
And all this time, I thought that was the reason why you went with the licensing.... so you do not have to pay royalities all over the world.

Granted, in the state that things are in, I got the feeling that if you have licensing in the country that you live in, then no one is going to sue you too badly ... however, technically you do need to be licensed everywhere someone tunes in.

That is why there is a market for companies such as Stream Solutions to sell geolocked servers. Ever try to tune in to some old UK stations of long ago? You can't do it because they are not paying the royalities for people in the states to listen...

Its just the way the game goes and personally I am sick of it. Too much BS and too many hoops for small fish to jump through. Costs too much money. Then you gotta get hosting on top of that. People have made damn sure that it is nearly impossible to make money at this or even break even so people would be discouraged from getting into it.

What ever happened to freedom of speech... technically this is our way of "communicating" to the world...
I agree. With my current licensing situation with wrw. I am covered under PPL UK and BMI. Almost all of my artist are BMI artist . PPL collects for over 30 countries (the major ones) Because PPL has an extended territories license where they collect for streams that are listned to in other coutnries . It's like mentioned before.It's like a piece of pie. The collection agencies are getting most of the pie in my case . I dont think anyone is getting the full pie here. I guess we just have to find a way to beat this think.

Soundexchange is going to end up biting off it's own foot here.

OH and PS. I officailly "live" in both US and Russia. I have residence in both.

And FREE SPEECH???

Forget about it. Not all speech is protected under the law. Like deflamation of character - threats etc.

And just the other day New York outlawed the use of the "N" word.

I would like to state that I do not use the "N" word nor do i suggest or approve of it's use in any negative fashion. I do however find it odd that our speech is being outlawed , even when it is only an ethnic slur.
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Old 3rd March 2007, 17:10   #47
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If you'd like I can drop you some space on the WebcastersUnited servers since it's somewhat of a central point for webcasters and we already have forums and the such up and operational. Let me know if you'd like to do this.

I have also put in a request for voiceovers at Radio Daddy so we can get some PSA's on the air immediately. I'm not the best person to put together a copy of what needs to be said although I have some ideas so I am looking for input on this. Also have some banners in the works but again, I'm definately not much of a graphic artist so in both cases I'd love to get input and contributions.

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Old 3rd March 2007, 17:24   #48
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Well, the first thing to remember is that SoundExchange are the greedy bastards wanting more and more money. Not BIM, SESAC, SOCAN, ASCAP...just SE. Eliminate their power and we're all in good shape. Let them continue to run wild and we're all done for.

This is a situation where we need to get everyone involved to fight this - from the internet, broadcast and satellite operators to those who provide bandwidth and services to those stations and includes the listeners who will lose their stations and ability to listen, the internet providers who will likely lose customers and income because users will have less to enjoy on the internet and even includes the artists and performers who will inevitably lose revenue and free promotions from this whole thing.

I also put in a request with the mods to see if we can get this and the above mentioned threads merged so we're not trying to pull this off in two seperate ones.

Also for those wanting to get involved I have begun to compile information on who we will need to target with these efforts including the Copyright Royalty Board judges, RIAA members and what appears to be the first 'friend' of internet radio, Congressman Ed Markey. That information will be posted here as things are developing:

http://webcastersunited.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=46

Dear mods: I hope you dont find this information or post inappropriate as it affects us all.

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Old 3rd March 2007, 19:32   #49
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http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/arch...ificantly.html

Because the link was lacking.

We were warned of this a few months ago in this thread:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=263230

It would be a good idea to put up a sticky thread in a central location that gets a lot of traffic so that all concerned could get involved. Maybe even a sticky thread that appears in all the forums as this really does affect everyone that streams and listens to streams! Though I have to say that most people are just to lazy to get involved, look at the aac+ petition for iTunes thread. What a pathetic turnout. Also remember that TimeWarner (AOL owners) are but one of the greedy bastards that pushed for these new rates. And they probably did this because of the popularity of the streams provided by Shoutcast. They saw green a long time ago.

For me it isn't so much the money, it's more the paper work involved. I doubt we will be able to hire someone to deal with the logs and aggregate tuning hours and all the other B/S that RIAA wants. This is all the record companies, as mentioned in another thread, the artist's representations are pretty cool with the current payments.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 3rd March 2007, 19:38   #50
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http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=266981

Just to bring this up to the top again.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 3rd March 2007, 23:46   #51
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In light of the changes in rates that the copyrights board has chosen to pass, a campaign to draw attention to this issue has begun. This issue affects every broadcaster out there regardless of what licensing agency you use. I realize some other sites have begun their own campaigns. Those sites should try and coordinate with us and other sites that are launching such a campaign. There are PSA mp3s available for download to be played on your stations and more will be added as they are made. These are very professional mp3s. We really have to make some noise. We need to inform our listeners that we could literally be forced off the internet due the ridiculous costs they are imposing. Any sites involved in campaigns already will be posted on the front page of our site. We can exchange PSA mp3s and scripts. The main thing is we ALL need to get involved. The site is webcastersunite dot net and we are trying to make it a central site for everything going on. Additionally savenetradio dot org is set up for listeners to read about the issue and contact their representatives.
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Old 4th March 2007, 00:00   #52
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Let's see if this works:

http://www.webcastersunite.net
http://www.savenetradio.org

Note that they also dropped the aggregate tuning hours for non-comm stream from 192 to 152 thousand per month. That's less than 200 connections connected 24/7. My boss is just going to love this when I tell him.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 4th March 2007, 00:19   #53
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True enough. I had kind of hoped more Webcasters would heed the warnings and prepare in advance, However, like any call to action, there's going to be some degree of complacency until the threat becomes more real.

--Randall

Executive Director, SWCI
www.smallwebcaster.org // Redefining Music Royalties for Small Webcasters

Legal Disclaimer: The information hereinbefore is not intended to constitute legal advice or consultation nor does it form a legally binding contract.
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Old 4th March 2007, 00:54   #54
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SWCI has been actively pursuing this cause for several weeks now. We're currently in the process of pooling additional outside resources toward this campaign, due to the limited timeframe in which we have to work. A press release will be made available early this coming week.

All of our members thus far wholly agree that the Webcasting industry (including many businesses ancillary to streaming radio) cannot sustain significantly higher royalty rates. We're looking forward to the appeals process, and the outcome -- as the CRB decision was extremely disappointing at best.

I am really pushing for new legislation that aims to open up voluntary royalty negotiations with SoundExchange for a specific class of Webcasters. The exact definition for eligibility would need to be established, as well as the specific rates and terms.

Although, I don't necessarily favour a repeat of the Small Webcaster Settlement Act, I do believe that an interim bill designed to relieve Webcasters from these new statutory rates could prove favourable for the community. Either way, our organization certainly won't be taking this issue lightly.

Randall Krause
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Small Webcaster Community Initiative
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Old 4th March 2007, 01:20   #55
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URLs are posted in a topic above this one. Check it out. I agree it will take us all doing everything we can to change this.
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Old 4th March 2007, 02:29   #56
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I'd say that I would try to get our students involved, but from the turnout with the itunes petition, I don't expect much. I'll send some emails on Monday and see if I can turn up the financial heat as there are a couple of businesses that will lose money on products if this continues.

I'll also talk to my boss and see if he can talk to the president of the college, and hope that she can talk to her peers, etc....

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 4th March 2007, 02:31   #57
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Randall,

What help do you need?

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 4th March 2007, 12:03   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by RadioRevolt
My thoughts:
Wtf is this Stalinist Russia? China? no, no it is not.

Down with the FCC, up with the people.
If this was Stalinist Russia these bourgeois sons of bitches at sound exchange would be dragged out of their Ivory towers and shot in the street.



OH and I particulary like this quote:

Quote:
The recording industry contests that stream-ripping alone imposes an unbearable economic risk, and therefore higher royalties are a necessity to compensate sound-recording copyright owners for potential losses in CD and MP3 sales.
That is so much crap. Do they , you or anyone here actually believe that stream rippers are going to ever buy the damned songs? They assume too much. They are counting a "LOSS" that truely never existed. Thats like a Mcdonalds charging it's customers more money to compensate for the "LOSS" that they suffered when other customers who would never eat at Mcdonalds went to Burger King. You can't claim a "LOSS" when the people doing the stream ripping NEVER EVER HAD ANY INTENTION OF EVERY BUYING THE MUSIC IN THE FIRST PLACE....Thats HOrse shit

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Old 4th March 2007, 12:08   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg_E
I'd say that I would try to get our students involved, but from the turnout with the itunes petition, I don't expect much. I'll send some emails on Monday and see if I can turn up the financial heat as there are a couple of businesses that will lose money on products if this continues.

I'll also talk to my boss and see if he can talk to the president of the college, and hope that she can talk to her peers, etc....
Ah the iTunes petition has plenty of time. It will grow slowely you will see. Once I have a few hundred people on that petition I will send it to the proper people. It's no major rush.

Unlike this licensing issue.
I suggest everyone write their congressmn as well.Oh and write soundexchange and tell them what you think of their sorry asses.
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Old 4th March 2007, 12:55   #60
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Also, Take a look here: http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=267001

IORSN: http://forums.allinternetradio.com/t...sn?forum=79614
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Old 4th March 2007, 15:04   #61
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The key here is to get our listeners involved, which is going to be the big problem. Clearly we care because this directly effects us.

Making the people who tune into us care is a different story.
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Old 4th March 2007, 15:30   #62
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Stream rippers hate aac+ at 32k
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Old 4th March 2007, 15:33   #63
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Time to get the counter propaganda machine up and running.
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Old 4th March 2007, 16:42   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by fc*uk
The key here is to get our listeners involved, which is going to be the big problem. Clearly we care because this directly effects us.

Making the people who tune into us care is a different story.
That's a hard one to gauge. No one likes the RIAA - broadcasters nor most of the general public and that's who's doing this. And the best way to point that out is to remind listeners that this isn't a case of the artists being paid, the composers being paid nor anyone else who makes the music or produces it. This is a case of the record labels being greedier and greedier every single year that goes on while the artists continue to get nothing. When you put it like that it makes alot more sense than the poor internet stations suffering.

Sadly there's no lie in this because that's exactly what's happening. We need to put SoundExchange and the RIAA squarely in our sights and target missles at them. Can the record labels claim they will go broke if this doesn't happen? Nope. Can they claim they are 'doing it for the artists'? Nope. Can we clearly show that when the Librarian of Congress put SoundExchange in control of royalty collection that they are letting their greed directly control them and their decisions? Definately.

And that's the point that needs to be made here. This will hurt internet radio as well as any AM or FM station broadcasting on the web. Listeners will lose them all. If there are any choices left when the dust settles they will likely be operated by the record labels themselves and since greed is the motivating factor you know they're going to expect to be paid if you get to listen.

These are just a few valid points to make to the listeners. Remember that they hate the RIAA just as much as we do and you've found our mutual enemy.

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Old 4th March 2007, 17:03   #65
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The site http://webcastersunite.net has professionally made PSA mp3s available as well as banners in an effort to get the word out to the public and give broadcasters a central site to stay updated and throw out ideas. 100s of stations are already playing these public service announcements every half hour. They direct listeners to http://savenetradio.org to contact their senators and congress to change this legislation.
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Old 4th March 2007, 17:06   #66
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shoot! Those were the urls to combat the rate hikes for internet broadcasters. Guess I can't post them.
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Old 4th March 2007, 17:11   #67
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I agree with you. However, I would also like to point out that the law is by no means 'just'.

We have no idea what governmental ball licking is going on here. Judging from how this system works, there is a lot of it going on by everyone. May not matter how just it is in the end; if the government wants to back them, they will and there is not too much that we can do about that.

Please keep in mind that this does not mean that I am willing to go down without a fight as I do intend to fight this in any way that I can. What it does mean, is I think the deck has been stacked heavily against us.

You don't get anywhere without fighting for it first though....
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Old 4th March 2007, 17:11   #68
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any idea when psa's will be up?
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Old 4th March 2007, 17:13   #69
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Dear Greg_E:

It looks like a couple of us may be going to Washington D.C. next week, including myself. So we really need to get the word out ASAP about our campaign efforts.

Do you know of anybody that might be willing to produce some sweepers that mention SWCI? That would be really helpful, since listeners as we know seem to thrive on activism. I'm already in the process of updating our homepage, and I will be devoting a full section to various campaign resources. Some downloadable PSAs for broadcasters to insert into their streams would make an ideal addition!

I can't stress enough how crucial it is that Webcasters do their part to become involved and to inform their lawmakers about what's at stake for the industry. Everything that we do now will have a profound impact on our entire community for years to come.

Thanks,

Randall Krause
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Old 4th March 2007, 17:14   #70
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and the one thign i cant really seem to find is when this really takes effect? yes it says retroactive to 06 but whens the first date this really kicks in?
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Old 4th March 2007, 17:19   #71
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The site http://webcastersunite.net has professionally made PSA mp3s available as well as banners in an effort to get the word out to the public and give broadcasters a central site to stay updated and throw out ideas ... They direct listeners to http://savenetradio.org to contact their senators and congress to change this legislation.

Reposted to help out. For future reference, if you click quote, you can see the links. We do not allow people under a specific number of posts to directly submit urls due to spamming and porn.
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Old 4th March 2007, 17:33   #72
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Thanks fcuk! I completely understand. I'll remember the tip
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Old 4th March 2007, 17:49   #73
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It starts as soon as it is written into the copyright laws (after any appeals). And it goes back to January 1 of 2006 which is when the payment period started.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 4th March 2007, 17:59   #74
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I can ask our students if anyone is willing to produce some PSA's. Anyone want to right the copy? I think a couple of our more motivated students might be willing to pick up the extra work if the copy is already written. I have another idea that I need to talk to some musicians about, call it a parody of a real song (to avoid paying any copyright fees). Something about the RIAA taking our streams away. If I can get that done, I'll make sure it gets released as GPL or Copy Left or some other free to use method.I might need webspace for the download though. if I have to stop our stream, I'll really push for a good song like this to be used on our server, it will just loop over and over , and over again until we can put my last chance plan into effect.

In theory IBS will be in Washington to represent me too (since we are on IBS member), but I'm not really very confident in them lately.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 4th March 2007, 18:18   #75
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Also, where's the copy? If someone rights it, I'll ask some of our students to produce it. No guarantee that it will get done, but it's worth a try. I think a couple of the more motivated people will find the time. We use Adobe Audition and Sony Acid Pro, Shure SM-7a microphones, Audio Arts and Wheatstone mixers, Audio Science or DAL Card Deluxe audio cards, and we teach our students to create (among other things) PSA'a, Promos, etc. We have a large collection of license free production music and sound effects including the entire loop collection for Acid Pro. If you can come up with a script for video PSAs, then we can maybe even go farther. We have many JVC GY-DV5000 and DV5100 dv cameras, and many Avid Xpress Pro and Final Cut Pro editing systems. Again, I can't promise anyhting other than I will ask some of our more outstanding students if they are interested, and hope for the best.

Here is what we need:

10 second radio PSA
15 second radio PSA
30 second radio PSA
60 second radio PSA
20 second radio PSA with 10 seconds of extra bed music for localized (custom) station tag

Video should be whatever length you want, if advertising dollars are available, then they should be standard lengths of 10, 15, 30, and maybe 60 seconds.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 4th March 2007, 18:21   #76
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double post from the other thread:
Quote:
Also, where's the copy? If someone rights it, I'll ask some of our students to produce it. No guarantee that it will get done, but it's worth a try. I think a couple of the more motivated people will find the time. We use Adobe Audition and Sony Acid Pro, Shure SM-7a microphones, Audio Arts and Wheatstone mixers, Audio Science or DAL Card Deluxe audio cards, and we teach our students to create (among other things) PSA'a, Promos, etc. We have a large collection of license free production music and sound effects including the entire loop collection for Acid Pro. If you can come up with a script for video PSAs, then we can maybe even go farther. We have many JVC GY-DV5000 and DV5100 dv cameras, and many Avid Xpress Pro and Final Cut Pro editing systems. Again, I can't promise anyhting other than I will ask some of our more outstanding students if they are interested, and hope for the best.

Here is what we need:

10 second radio PSA
15 second radio PSA
30 second radio PSA
60 second radio PSA
20 second radio PSA with 10 seconds of extra bed music for localized (custom) station tag

Video should be whatever length you want, if advertising dollars are available, then they should be standard lengths of 10, 15, 30, and maybe 60 seconds.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 4th March 2007, 18:41   #77
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PSAs here: http://np.iorsn.org
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Old 4th March 2007, 20:29   #78
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PSAs ... we really need to merge threads here...

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....53#post2146953
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Old 4th March 2007, 20:43   #79
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One minute PSA's will only fly for so long. We need 30 seconds and shorter. I'll see what I can do to get stuff on our stream but trying to force the people that oversee our station to use these one minute long versions is not likely. It would also help if our students produced the PSA, at least for our station.

Even a bullet point list of the important facts would be good, the stuff that really needs to be conveyed.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 4th March 2007, 21:12   #80
fc*uk
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the others posted on that site are much shorter than the first...

Greg, by all means do what you need to do. It seemed like you were answering a need for any PSA... so I reposted a link that another user posted in GD...
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