Old 1st February 2002, 07:34   #1
slasc
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cthugha

Ever heard of a program called cthugha?
There's even a winamp plug-in of it.
Cthugha is a few years old, and it does almost the exact same thing your program does. I'm including some cthugha links below so that you can see what I'm talking about.
It's a very old program, dating back to the DOS days, and, while even the programers seem to have abandoned it, I just think that maybe some credit should be given where it is due.
slasc

p.s. - I really do actually like your program. It's got some really nice features. It just seems like a super tweaked cthugha to me. Of course, Cthugha is my all time favorite plug-in. So, I guess that might have something to do with why I like Milkdrop so much, too. I've been a fan of Cthugha since it's DOS days.

Here's some links for cthugha (the top link is the best place to download cthugha from):
http://www.afn.org/~cthugha/archives.html#win95
http://islands.zesoi.fer.hr/~kpisacic/cthugha/
http://www.torps.com/Cthugha/cthugha.shtml
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Old 1st February 2002, 15:15   #2
Rovastar
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Yep I remember Cthugha. It was a classic when it came out and still regarded as one of the pioneers in eye candy. Though I have not seen Cthugha for years now. The winamp plug-in version is installed on my XP machine but does not run. I have downloaded again the winamp version but to no avail.

It has been abandoned for some years now in fact.

Generally (in the winamp community at least) when Geiss came out about 3 years ago now it was regraded as superior. To be honest after Geiss came out I think Cthugha people gave up.
Geiss became the benchmark that all vis stuff was judged on. The speed at which is does stuff if unmatched to this day. ANd is a benchmark to this day to some extent (and it has been over 2 years since the last update)

Then we had Whitecap (that my have actually been ealier but it is a long time ago and is no long being updated) and G-Force (still being updated (but it has not 'realy' been advanced in terms of 3d graphics cards,etc) - now on version 2.2 - goto www.55ware.com). G-Force is old skool style still plug-in but is mainly focused today on the Mac community. And only has a smaller PC following now.

THere is also Acidspunk 2 for old school style plug-in which is v good.

But most though that Geiss was still superior. Although I did prefer Acidspunk. Sorry Ryan

All of these are great plug-ins and are if there was a plug-in Hall of fame they would be in it. But things move on we have 3d Graphics cards now. Since the century there was nothing really ground break that came out. Then 6 months ago Ryan Geiss decided to make a new vis plug-in MilkDrop.

In a year or twos time there will be some now and exciting out and we may soon forgot MilkDrop. /me Shuddering at the thought.

But it is a good point we should remember the roots.

I hope the newbies you young whipper snappers you enjoyed the history lesson.
Hopefully I got all the history of this correct I am sure someone can and will correct me if I am wrong!

But what came before Cthugha? IF you know post back

So as for credit where it is due. I think the plug-in devolpment community knows the score and and gives masses of credit to each where due all the time!


Hope you enjoyed the read.

Rovastar

Edit: I have just looked at the files in the zip for Chugtha and the oldest map file is from 9th Feb 1991!!!Wow now that is old.

"Rules are for the guidance of wisemen and the obedience of fools"

Visuals - Morphyre www.Morphyre.com
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Old 1st February 2002, 17:21   #3
slasc
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cthugha was the first eye-candy to respond to music.
but, before that, I think the best eye-candy program was probably Acidwarp.
(it is an old DOS assembl program. It STILL works on EVERY version of windows I have tried it on)
As for cthugha for winamp, have you tried running it in a windowed mode? In my experience, the fullscreen mode never really worked very well. Yet, cthugha for winamp still works fine for me under winXP.
I think what gets me the most about cthugha is that winamp does not even have it on their plug-in page at all. It's one of the oldest winamp plug-ins around! Sure, I agree that milkdrop is better, but it is still almost exactly like cthugha in many ways. Take away the 3D from milkdrop and it would be cthugha. It uses the same type of ocilliscope patterns, etc. I even saw a section on milkdrop's page for downloading .tab files! That is an OLD cthugha file thing.
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Old 1st February 2002, 18:10   #4
Rovastar
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I most have installed it to the wrong dir. Ita ll works now

How funny it looks! The MAXIMUM setting availible 640x480 with 256 Colours. LOL.

I don't use the Geiss anymore because it runs too fast at 800x600x32 the max.

You must admit that Cthugha does look a little (ok a lot) primative. Compared to all the others nowadays. It is 11 years old. It was cutting edge at the time. I bet there are people using MilkDrop on these forums were not even born with this first came out. ROFL.

As for not being of the winamp site maybe they do not want it but I would have thought that you could submit it on the site. Normally authors are the only ones to submit I sure they would not mind if you did it. The authors are probably old men now hehe. The reveiws may be a little poor though.. But it a classic and has history. YOu could put undere the authors comment. Better then MilkDrop. LOL.

I do agree that the bare bones of Cthugha is used in MD for the preset idea (.milk) files. See a good idea never dies.

Thank you for taking me back on a retro trip.

Rovastar

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Old 1st February 2002, 19:40   #5
slasc
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oh man, I know all about that 640x 480. I usually just maximize the window. It will expand it, it will just be low res.
:-)
Yes, cthugha looks primitive. But, that's mainly because the cthugha developers dropped it at a bad time. The original cthugha developers were working on a 3d cthugha when they dropped it. It was a windows program, and it used the 3DFX cards. It was really cool. They have a cthugha for linux which is (I believe) still being modified and updated today. It does a lot of the 3D stuff that the 3D cthugha did. I believe it does it software though. It does work well. If you ever look at the cthugha for linux, it is essentially the ultimate cthugha. It works with the linux mp3 players via the wav input on the sound card. It also has a lot of the nifty onscreen menu stuff that milkdrop has now. If you have linux, it's definatly worth a try.
If you've never seen acidwarp before, you ought to get that. A great little program. The original ultimate eye-candy. The most recent version is dated '93. :-)
http://www.noah.org/acidwarp/
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Old 1st February 2002, 20:17   #6
Rovastar
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lol I remember that now. I recognised the intro screen.
I have seen that years and years ago.
hehe
ANother trip down memory lane.

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Old 15th February 2002, 23:09   #7
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Going back to that history lesson from Rovastar, as far as I know, G-Force was written becase it's author wanted Geiss on his mac, but Ryan Geiss wouldnt hand out the source (for fear of leaks, or because so much of it is in x86 assembler, I don't know) so G-Force was made to be in a similar vein, then extended to a point where it was decided putting it on PC was worth it.

Whitecap is from the same person/people and was made later.
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Old 15th February 2002, 23:17   #8
slasc
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hmm...never seen G-Force. Don't really need to.
Got Cthugha. Got Milkdrop. What more could one need?
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Old 22nd February 2002, 02:14   #9
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You should still try G-Force.. I use it just as much as Milkdrop. MD isn't just a more enhanced G-Force; they're different things.

As for the whole Whitecap-not-being-updated thing.. I think that's a little unfair. It's not like it was abandonded (it was updated about 4 months ago for Win and two days for mac); it's just been pretty much optimized to be the best at what it does.
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Old 22nd February 2002, 10:24   #10
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sorry didn't realize the WHitecap thing?
Too much to remember.

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Old 27th February 2002, 06:33   #11
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I still love cthugha

Cthugha ruled!! I spent lots of time staring at it back in the day, and I still wish there was a plug-in that used images the same way cthugha did. I remember converting all my pictures to greyscale and setting it to use the current effects pallete to show pictures. Really trippy! Plus not everybody has a new computer and cthugha will run on a pretty basic machine. It's funny that it's not listed on winamp.com, I remember back in the day it was Justin Frankel, you know the creator of winamp, that tweaked Cthugha to use beat detection, which I believe was the final release. What can I say I still run it every now and then, but also I only have a PII 400 so go figure. Personally I can't wait to see what some of these awesome presets that rovastar, Krash, Studio Music and the others have created look like when applied to images. I've giving thought to trying to convert them to AVS dynamic movement effects just to see.

There's still lots of us out there who appreciate where all this cool stuff originated, I'm sure Geiss is one of them.
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Old 3rd March 2002, 06:26   #12
BioSehnsucht
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Cthugha.. the two things it has over MilkDrop in my opinion is this:

pretty damn good (altho not *perfect*, but you can't get that) beat detection for trans changes

being able to fill a directory w/ images (sure they were only GIFs, but it operated on 256 color for rotoscoping etc since back in the day all CPUs were weak.. so big diff) and have it randomly insert them into the screen..

lol, I had enough one time I had to start deleting them until it would actually finish precaching the images.. it kept hitting some limit.. (I had plenty of ram / space, so must have been hardcoded)..

now, if only I could run MilkDrop semi-transparently on top of Cthugha.. that would rock BWAHAHAHA.. the ultimate combination
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Old 3rd March 2002, 15:20   #13
Flynnz
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Quote:
Originally posted by BioSehnsucht
now, if only I could run MilkDrop semi-transparently on top of Cthugha.. that would rock BWAHAHAHA.. the ultimate combination
I'm not so sure it would rock, but you could do it (assuming Cthugha can run windowed). Just run MD windowed on top of Cthugha and use some transparency program to make it semi-transparent.
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