Old 14th April 2002, 05:36   #41
RockyJ
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Dariusx, I assume you have a cdrom

Does it share a cable with the hard drive?
This will slow your HD down to a crawl and cause winamp to have problems playing the file.


Do you know what chipset your mobo has? and if it has software to drive the ata controller (which is part of the chipsets nowadays).

I have Intel 815E chipset
533 celeron
1 ide channel with a 60gig HD and cdrom(slave)
1 ide channel with a 3gig and 17gig HD

I just put on the 60 gig and it was slower than a floppy. Luckily I didn't have to do much tweaking and fiddling because Intel has ata controller software to fix the problem of the IDE channel defaulting to the slowest drive.

e.g. Seq write went from a .28 mb/sec to a 25 mb/sec

This may not be your prob but thought I'd throw it out in case anyone else stuck the hd on their cdrom cable.

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Old 15th April 2002, 01:23   #42
Dariusx
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Sucess!!!

I posted this last night but it semed not have taken. I lowered my Norton Anti Virus settings and now I do not have the skipping/stuttering problems. After 3 years of this, it is a joy to surf and hear my music without that. Thanks DJ Egg for the help.
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Old 15th April 2002, 03:44   #43
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That is all said and good. However, none of it is the real answer. I have added the upgrades. I have a fast system, with tons of memory (see my previous post). I do not run any active antivirus software. And my firewall is firmware-run hardware (faster than most full company firewalls). And I still get the staccato playback problems. And, as I have said in my previous post, it is a buffer problem that I can aggrevate with RAM-effecting software running at the same time, or a series of other windows open (such as MS Word or more browser windows). As a matter of fact, I can usually predict the buffers that are the problem before a RAM scanning software checks RAM in allocation tables.
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Old 22nd April 2002, 23:58   #44
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How can any moderator or winamp employee honestly sit there and say that this issue is soundcard and/or driver related? It is obviously a widespread issue (judging by the number of people posting here) that happens on many different types of systems with many different types of hardware. Not to mention that it only started happening (atleast on my system) after upgrading to winamp 2.79. It am no idiot when it comes to computers and through a process of elminination i have narrowed the problem down to something with the crossfading directsound output plugin v1.34a. MY winamp only skips when this plugin is selected. Actually, come to think of it, maybe i am naming this incorrectly. My winamp doesnt actually skip. A skipping usually means that the player backtracks in the song and plays the same part over again. This is NOT what is happening on my system. What is happening to me is more of a jump forward in the song. Usually a couple times during each song, winamp will jump ahead 1 or 2 or even 3 seconds and continue playing like nothing happened. Perhaps this will offer more insight to the problem. Is this jumping ahead happening to anyone else or is it just me??
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Old 23rd April 2002, 00:49   #45
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Bleh. Old news

www.blorp.com/~peter/out_ds.dll

Copy to Winamp\Plugins dir (thus overwriting the old version)
Open Winamp
Goto: Prefs -> Output -> Crossfading DS -> config
Checkmark "create primary buffer"
Maybe also set buffer to "max skipping protection" setting (c/o drop-down menu)

If the problem persists, then yes, it must be some hardware / driver / DirectX / Windows config related issue, because the new plugin has fixed it for everyone else so far (although many many of us never had any problems with the default 2.79 plugin).
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Old 23rd April 2002, 02:31   #46
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old news my ass, this is the first i saw of a fix for the out_ds.dll. Not to mention that it doesnt even fix the problem...<sarcasm>but hey, its my system thats at fault, right?</sarcasm> i've tried every setting and plugin that this thread has suggested and nothing has worked. I still get this jumping ahead problem using the crossfading directsound plugin in winamp 2.79.
as i am writing this, the current song has jumped ahead 5 seconds 3 times. This is crazy. If you want to sit there and insist that it is my computer, then go ahead..i dont know what more i can do to convince you otherwise. The only way winamp jumps ahead in songs is when its using the out_ds plugin..so i dont see how this could possibly be a fault of my system. If anyone cares, my comp specs are as follows.

Dual 1.2 athlon MP's on tyan tiger mp 2460
512 registered ecc ddr ram
primary 2 ibm 7200 rpm hd's on same cable
secondary plextor cdrw creative dvd on same cable
hercules geforce2 ultra
audigy platinum
intel 10/100 nic
windows xp pro

I am running nothing but winamp and have 0%-1% processor usage and 157mb ram used and winamp still jumps ahead a couple seconds randomly in every song it plays.

So..yeah, i guess i'll just deal without the crossfade..or maybe just use the sqrsoft one..atleast that one works.
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Old 23rd April 2002, 08:56   #47
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ooh, another happy audigy user. fyi, this IS a fault of your system, i personally know people using audigy/winxp and having 0 problems with out_ds. audigy drivers are known to be one of the worst, if you want fixes, go moan at creative labs instead (their sblive drivers had problems with reporting correct playback position too, nothing new). <sarcasm> so, if you want to prove that it's a bug in our code, find another person with the same problem first.</sarcasm>
also, is the skip-ahead time related to buffer size you set ? does windows media player have the same problem ?
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Old 23rd April 2002, 13:47   #48
jimmus
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Hell, i've been moaning at creative for years..a lot of good it does. The only reason i say its not a fault of my system is the fact that i've been using winamp for years and only now (2.79 with the out_ds plugin) does it become a problem. Im not sitting here insisting its not a problem of my system because i am arrogant and think my computer is the best, im doing it because through process of elimination, i have narrowed the problem down to this particular plugin in this particular program. I have not used media player (for obvious reasons) but i will try it to see what it does.

Just for clarification, i am not bitching in this forum to get people to hate me or because i think i am better than anyone else. I am doing it because i am tired of lazy programmers who like to blame their problems on peoples systems and the like instead of just accepting that their code is buggy and fixing it. I am not saying that is what is going on here, but please keep that in mind. If there is a problem with my system i'll gladly accept it and do everything in my power to fix it. I thank everyone for their responses and their help. *off to see what windows media gayer does...*
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Old 23rd April 2002, 14:01   #49
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lazy programmers.... rotflmao... i've spent weeks on fighting driver stupidity, go write better plugins if you think you can. i'll try to make a "debug" build logging info about DirectSound behaviors later, i don't have time for that now (doing priority wa3 shit). also, you could verify if wa3beta3 has the same problem, it uses the same DirectSound code.
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Old 23rd April 2002, 14:05   #50
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another thing, if particular output plugin has problems on your system, this doesn't mean that there's a bug in that plugin; it usually means that the plugin is prone to some sort of driver problems occuring on your system which don't happen on any of computers the plugin was originally tested on; so blame "lazy testers" instead (this plugin has been available for months, it was clearly stated that it was going to the Winamp setup).
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Old 23rd April 2002, 17:07   #51
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Well paint me green and call me gumby, WMP does it too oops.
Thanks for putting me in my place guys..i feel like a total loser now.
Hey dont think for a second that i was being a lazy tester..i was going crazy doing everything i could to figure out why this problem was happening. It just didnt even occur to me to try another program cause it only happened with this particular plugin. I guess its time to go bitch at creative some more. Tell me, how have they gotten so big when their drivers suck nuts...i dont get it. I might have to get a job there when im done with my masters in comp sci

Thanks again everyone..sorry for the misdirected hostility. Im up for a public stoning if anyone feels the need to inflict bodily harm on me.
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Old 23rd April 2002, 17:13   #52
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in case you want to bitch at them - your system has broken DirectSound (recent wimp versions always use DirectSound); your waveOut works fine. the problem suddenly showed up in Winamp v2.79 probably because v2.79 uses DirectSound by default on win2k/xp (which works much better on most of machines). if you get the same with wimp, you would probably have this problem with pre-v2.79 out_ds as well.
i'd personally blame SMP support in their drivers for all this, it's the most unusual thing about your system i can see.
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Old 23rd April 2002, 23:07   #53
RockyJ
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJEgg
Checkmark "create primary buffer"
[/B]
What does that do and what happens if it is not ck'd?

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Old 23rd April 2002, 23:21   #54
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"create primary buffer" forces low-level hardware sound format to be identical to currently played stream to prevent DirectX from downsampling everything to crappy 22khz/8bit on certain configurations (win9x/awe64-ish ?). it really really makes no difference on any of my systems, recommended is OFF (if you get the downsampling problem, you're gonna notice it really quick; if not, there's no reason to enable it), it's enabled by default on win9x systems. as far as i know, it doesn't affect skipping in any case, but feel free to experiment and share your experience.
note: out_ds manual updated recently.
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Old 24th April 2002, 04:18   #55
RockyJ
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playing from a wav file on my HD. results are same with 50meg or 800meg file.

out_ds2.dll 1.37
prim and exclusive box not checked 4000ms buffer
every 9-12 seconds there is a 1/2sec pause; wimamp cpu use= 98%

with prim and exclusive box checked
down to 9.5% cpu useage; no pauses.

out_ds.dll 1.35b
antiskipbuffer=standard WA cpu=58.5%
skip=max cpu=98% pauses similar to ds2
w/ prim buff ck'd max skip has same prob, standard skip drops back down to 58%
drops to 9% with 4000

wavout has 2.5%-3.2% cpu use with both size files.

I get identical sound from wav_out w/ less cpu use, less chance of skipping (and it works with my totalrecorder as well).

What is advantage of directsound except for the fact that MS says it is superior???

I'm not sure how much playing the same file over and over under testing affects the buffering of win98. I'm gonna go thru these settings again to make sure. Also mp3 may be different.

using 535celeron,
philips acoustic edge
384ram
win98

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Old 24th April 2002, 05:19   #56
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2nd test

2nd test, 759meg 16bit 44hz. wav file:
wavout same as before

out_dsv1.35b buffer size affects but primary option no diff
standard; no buffer:
58%cpu
max; no buffer:
98.5% paused at 9 sec intervals
standard; prim buffer:
58%; no pause
max; w/ buffer:
same as w/buffer
low latency; w/buffer;
24%; no pause
low; w/o buffer
same

out_ds2v1.37
4000ms no buff:
98%cpu; pause after 12 sec intervals
4000ms exclusive mode no buff:
same pause, sound artifacts on pause
4000ms prim buff and excl:
9-10%; no pause sounds little louder
2000ms no buff:
55%; no pause
2000ms w/ buff and excl:
error on 1st start than restart ok. I may have restarted WA too quick and this was just a good recovery of internal fumble, I think it was a DS error code.
10%cpu
drag bar or rt arrow causes WA to advance uncontrollably, have to stop and restart only advances after hitting pause and then rt arrow.


out_ds volume setting of 84% = 50% of ds2 or wavout which are about the same.

conclusion:
no obvious value to go to DS over wav out
ds2 has problem with fast forward/rev controls
ds has lower volume.

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Old 24th April 2002, 05:27   #57
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I used a real low quality internet radio stream saved as 44h16bit. So I will ck sound quality of buffers with a regular cd wav.

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Old 24th April 2002, 09:12   #58
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what's the advantage of DirectSound over waveOut ? there's NO advantage on win9x, this has been discussed to death (i'll add this to manual). DirectSound is can mix multiple streams by design (win9x waveOut can't) and access various funny hardware features (eg. out_ds uses hardware-mixed crossfading). DirectSound almost always eats mure CPU than waveOut on win9x; on win2k/xp DirectSound is much faster while waveOut is slow.
if you get THAT huge CPU usage and pauses every N seconds, it's just another case of driver problems.
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Old 24th April 2002, 23:06   #59
RockyJ
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Peter, all sound card drivers have problems I guess. Wonder why they can't write proper drivers, anyway please answer these ?

out_ds

the buffer anti skip protection will cause the cpu useage problem
low-latency is low cpu, max is 98% and expected pauses due to cpu load

out_ds2v1.37
buffer size and the primary and exclusive options both affect this cpu load problem.

also there is problems with the fast forward and reverse modes of ds2

I may re try this and then will reinstall dx8.1 and see if it changes anything.

also seems to be a volume difference here.

I have a response about WA from my totalrecorder folks but I stuck it in a new question.

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Old 24th April 2002, 23:19   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by RockyJ
Peter, all sound card drivers have problems I guess. Wonder why they can't write proper drivers, anyway please answer these ?
bullshit, my sb128pci is working PERFECTLY. sblive/win98 was OK. even sblive/win2k works very nice after some tweaks if you don't have any hardware conflicts. why the bloody hell do you keep using DirectSound on win98 despite of your problems ? that's why we still provide waveOut plugin, it works much better on win9x.
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