Old 16th August 2011, 13:22   #1
hotwire2020
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Playlist Remove Duplicates Fails (Clarified)

Winamp 5.621 (x86) July 11, 2011
Clean install, no 3rd-party skins or plugins

Skin: Bento

OS: Windows 7 Home Premium
Locale: English US
CPU: Intel i7 860 @ 2.80GHz (8 cpu's)
Memory: 4GB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5500
Sound: AMD HDMI
DirectX 11

Problem:
Hi, I am experiencing a failed function when I hilight all the tracks in my playlist, select remove -> remove duplicate entries.. Nothing happens, I have a playlist that had multiple duplicate songs and all the file information is exact. I even tried the key function shift+del and get the same failed result. The same failed response also happens if I don't select all files in the playlist.

Method of Reproduction:
1. Create or generate a playlist with multiple duplicates
2. Select, or don't select, all the playlist songs
3. Click on the minus (-) button at the bottom of the playlist controls
4. Select Remove, then choose Remove Duplicate Entries
5. Nothing happens, the duplicates remain.

I also tried the key function shift+delete after methods 1-2 and same results.

Thanks for checking this out.
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Old 16th August 2011, 16:05   #2
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hotwire2020: the option only works based on the playlist file path. if you are definitely sure that those are different then you'll need to send me a copy of the playlist file (email via my site link in my signature) and i'll see if i can replicate the issue.

-daz
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Old 22nd August 2011, 07:24   #3
hotwire2020
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Re-Question on Removing Duplicates from Playlist

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
hotwire2020: the option only works based on the playlist file path. if you are definitely sure that those are different then you'll need to send me a copy of the playlist file (email via my site link in my signature) and i'll see if i can replicate the issue.

-daz
Hi Dro, Thanks for the fast response. Am I understanding your response correctly? eg. If my playlist contains an identical mp3 file that may be in the same folder, Winamp will calculate duplication based only on the file's metadata or tag not the actual file name?

Or are you saying if there is a duplicate mp3 file in different directories it will not be seen as a duplicate file because it is in 2 different directories?

I know sometimes it's difficult or almost impossible to re-implement some programming structure based on the root design within the program, but I cannot understand why duplication should not have been calculated based on the file identity itself and not the path of the file.

Anyhow, I would appreciate any help or feedback on this issue. Thanks.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 08:42   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwire2020 View Post
Or are you saying if there is a duplicate mp3 file in different directories it will not be seen as a duplicate file because it is in 2 different directories?
this is how it works as that's how i coded it since that was what people wanted many many years back. maybe it should also do it based on the file metadata as well but i'm unlikely to implement that into the plug-in.

-daz
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Old 23rd August 2011, 17:11   #5
hotwire2020
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Ok, gotcha.. As much as I would like to see the compare with metadata, or even file name, I can understand your position on such a request.

Anyhow, I see what you are saying about the directory comparing so I can, or in the future, weed out duplicates from any album folder directories. Ultimately I want to have one large mp3 folder for all my files, which I'm slowly working on, since the metadata will hold album and other info in the tags. The problem is that I currently have about 22,000 files to deal with, duplicates and all.. lol.

Ok, playlist duplicates are not a very big deal for me currently since I can scan over it and weed out the ones that do show a duplicate. Thanks for the Info.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 17:30   #6
Batter Pudding
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwire2020 View Post
Ultimately I want to have one large mp3 folder for all my files, ... The problem is that I currently have about 22,000 files to deal with, duplicates and all..
22,000 files in ONE folder is bonkers. It will cause your PC all kinds of problems\slow downs. Internally it needs to keep lists of those folders to work on. Look at the problem when you open a big folder full of images. Windows is busy running through every file to extract the thumbnails. In the older days there used to be problems when you got above 255 files in one folder. Of course, that will be better now, but still I expect problems around 32,768.

It won't fail or crash, just will be a lot slower and inefficient when stored in that manner.

If you must have all your tunes in such a disorganised heap, then I advise you to split at least into categories of some form to keep the number of files in one folder down.

One of the points of Winamp is to give you that single, searchable, list of your tracks while maintaining a better file structure on the PC. I know that with some of the more naff P2P programs they just dump all the tunes in one place, but don't let their idiot ideas dictate how you organise your music.
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Old 26th October 2011, 21:32   #7
hotwire2020
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Too Many Files In One Folder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
22,000 files in ONE folder is bonkers.
Not necessarily Batter, This was one of the ideas of having tags, so you don't have to create thousands of folders to categorize your music.

I can understand your thought of perhaps creating a few or more folders to break down the file number in each, but most computers today doesn't have a problem with a large number of files in a folder unless you may be using it structurally like a music folder showing all the tag info, then, if not cached, you may have to wait some time for the data to write itself. However, in most cases the folder I use, is not accessed directly unless i need to physically change a file name etc, but only accessed by music programs.

Hell, I know some individuals that have over 80,000 files in a given folder and absolutely have no problems with it.. All the files are tagged creating a beautiful layout for their music programs etc. I even know a few DJs that use tag info only from files in one folder.

Anyhow, my ears are always open to learning and I appreciate your concept in position with Winamp, however, I've managed to get around the duplicate issue another way.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 26th October 2011, 23:27   #8
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Hi hotwire2020,

I only use 27 sub-folders, one for every letter in the alphabet and one (catch-all) for
numbers. Whatever letter or number the artists' names start with, their song files go
into the corresponding sub-folder.

This not only avoids the tons of folders needed by the 'classic' approach, but also avoids
the rare problem of exceeding the 256 character pathname limit.

I have a small collection (6000+) and embed cover art in all my tracks. You should read
the linked thread about a problem with the initial scans of large collections that use
embedded art. It's a very long thread.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=335960
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Old 27th October 2011, 03:19   #9
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Hi Aminifu, oh yes that is also a good categorizing method.. I think what I'm really trying to clarify is that tagging has become a quite popular technique for categorizing in place of the folder tree method. I would say basically eliminating tedious steps of multiple tasks of folder tree development and tagging, in other words why create a folder for the artist if it's just as easy to create it in the tag, eliminating a double step naming folders and tags.

I think it really comes down to how big of a collection a user is manipulating.

I hope no one perceives me wrong, I'm not at all criticizing individuals methods of organizing their music, everyone will do whatever works best for them, I'm stating that tagging is more preferable for categorizing for large quantities of files than multiple folders in my opinion.

Now, how a certain program handles a person's method could make a difference, depending on what the user is doing.

I actually use SAM Party DJ when helping my cuzin DJ sometimes at a club, it has no problems with the music files. Winamp Pro is my home baby I use to jam at home.

In fact, I used your method for years, (Tree type organizing with folders), but have appreciated the tag approach much better with less folder naming.

So yes, that's my goal, to have ALL my music files in only a few folders, if not one, and let the music programs handle it from there.. So far it's been ok, even the Album covers.

Thanks for the thread, Ima check it out to see if it's some good stuff I can learn from it.

take care.
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Old 27th October 2011, 12:19   #10
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Hi hotwire2020,

Many years ago I was a radio DJ (it was fun, but a lot of work, all analog equipment
and no software, now it would be a snap).

Do occasional hall DJing at parties for family and friends. Lately I've been using the
home version of Virtual DJ. Sound quality control within the app is not very good. From
its description, SAM DJ seems to be much better on that front. I'll check it out. Now my
problem is getting the wife to let me spend $100 for such a limited use.

I agree, Winamp with a few plugins is the best app for rocking out at home.

Live long and prosper!
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Old 28th October 2011, 20:51   #11
hotwire2020
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Thanks Aminifu

Thanks Aminifu, yeah I have some friends and my cuz, who have way more music files than myself. My idea is to put my music on a portable HD and be able to move it from my living room, bedroom and personal parties so i can keep the files updated in one location.

Will make everything less headache when updating Album covers and Tag info.

Thanks Aminifu, you have been a big help!
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Old 28th October 2011, 20:56   #12
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Thanks Aminifu for the help, yeah i want to put everything on 1 HD so i can move it from my living room to bedroom and personal parties etc.. this way i can update everything in on place, Album art etc.. on the tag info.

With portables being up to terribytes now, this makes the music local incredible!

Anyhow, Thanks Aminifu for your help, it's appreciated..

Take Care.
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Old 29th October 2011, 03:17   #13
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there are of course many ways to store files, however i advocate ways that will work universely with almost any given app, and just lumping files into folders doesn't qualify.

i do something roughly like this where < and > indicate a variable:

M:\audio\music\<owner>\<type>\<source>\<genre>\<artist>\<album>\song.mp3

and put a Folder.jpg with a copy in each album folder.

Owner is usually a name or initials of who i got the files from. type is if its mp3s, flacs or dvd rips. source is if i (or they) ripped it, or downloaded it. genre is very basic, and might also have genre sub folders in it, artist is usually the albumartist value, and album is just the album name obviously.

this works VERY well with just about any app, and is also useful for smartviews and other apps that allow loading by folders.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 29th October 2011, 14:35   #14
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Hi MrSinatra,

How often do you run into the 256 character pathname limit with your storage system?
Those who may want to use such a system should be made aware of this limit and be
prepared to use abbreviations as necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
there are of course many ways to store files, however i advocate ways that will work universely with almost any given app, and just lumping files into folders doesn't qualify.
The point you may be missing is that 'appropriate tagging' can and does allow almost
any given app (released in the last few years) to be used to effectively manage (sort,
select, search, etc) music files without the overhead of the storage system you
advocate.

Of course, if someone wants to use a general file manager to look (eyeball) for stuff,
a storage system like you advocate is very important.
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Old 29th October 2011, 16:59   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Hi MrSinatra,

How often do you run into the 256 character pathname limit with your storage system?
Those who may want to use such a system should be made aware of this limit and be
prepared to use abbreviations as necessary.
before i was aware of it, i think i had ~4-8 files out of 50k that were problems. what i found was that its not really likely, but even one file is one too many for me. the limit of 256 is filepath and filename combined, so any combo will trigger it. i used winamp and mp3tag together to try to get their file totals and times to match, to find the offenders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
The point you may be missing is that 'appropriate tagging' can and does allow almost
any given app (released in the last few years) to be used to effectively manage (sort,
select, search, etc) music files without the overhead of the storage system you
advocate.

Of course, if someone wants to use a general file manager to look (eyeball) for stuff,
a storage system like you advocate is very important.
yep, i agree. most apps only need metadata. but a lot of apps also use folder location, like squeezebox server, or handheld devices, to properly group albums. beyond that, a lot of apps have location based features, like playing folders or smartviews based on folders, (i can for instance, make a smartview for music that came from my wife, just on that one folder), and i def need to eyeball my stuff via explorer.

and if you don't embed art, which i advocate people not to do, its absolutely necessary to have at least an ..\artist\album\abc.jpg system.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 29th October 2011, 17:08   #16
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There are two things that stop me from using the "all in one heap" system.

1\ I like to be organised and see which files are where. Also, like MrSinatra, I have many categories based on where I got the files from. Different groupings that tags cannot handle.
2\ Not only Winamp accesses the music folders. I have other devices which use DLNA to access those same folders. Some of those are pretty basic as to their folder handling. Which means scrolling through a single list of 50,000 files would be a non-starter.


Surely the key is that everyone has their own way of storing their music. There is no "right" way. There is only "personal" ways. My DVDs on the shelf are grouped in "type of film". My CDs on my shelf are in alphabetical order based on artist. I know one friend who puts her CDs on the shelf in colour order!!
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Old 29th October 2011, 17:30   #17
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thats absolutely true, and on occassion i even violate my own rules! however, i firmly believe that some ways are better than other ways, not just different.

in one sense, it depends on the goal one is trying to achieve, most people do what they do to reach "the goal of the moment" which is usually limited in scope. its perfectly justifiable for that one scenario, but not very flexible or malleable.

what i have attempted to do, learned over the years of mostly hard won trial and errorS, is identify methods that are universal, that fit many given scenrios and do so well. i consider that "better."

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 30th October 2011, 12:36   #18
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Hi Guys,

A Way To Find Mislabeled Duplicates

Sometimes I download or receive songs from friends that have the wrong artist and/or
title. These songs turn out to be songs I already have (usually with the correct artist
and/or title). I use an old (no longer supported) playlist generator app that helps me
id this kind of duplication.

The app is called "MusicIP Mixer". It works with Win 7 and somehow it still manages to
"fingerprint" songs, but all of its other WEB-based features no longer work. The initial
analysis takes a while, but its faster than the Gracenote analysis on my system.

After the analysis, you can generate a duplicate listing to find the real and mislabeled
duplicate files. The analysis is not perfect (about 95% for me), so you need to check
before moving or deleting any indicated dups.

http://www.amplifindmusicservices.co.../downloads.php

It also does a pretty good job making playlists, better than the Gracenote generator
provided with WA, imo.
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