Old 29th July 2004, 04:43   #1
Namelessv1
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The DNC and RNC

Is there any real point to either one of the national conventions, Democrat or Republican? It's an entire week of vague, generalized, rhetoric-filled speeches and not much else.
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Old 29th July 2004, 04:55   #2
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Sounds like politics in general. Has Congress ever struck you as any different?

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Old 29th July 2004, 05:45   #3
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Not in my lifetime.
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Old 29th July 2004, 15:47   #4
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I've been watching the Democratic Convention every night, on CSPAN.
I'm witnessing the most incredible thing.
For years, the Democrats have been the peace party,
the dove party, the anti-military party, the anti-war party,
the anti-defense spending party, and so on.
But look at what their message is right now.
Pro military, pro defense spending and so on.
They're marching out (no pun intended) all these military people.
They're championing John Kerry for all the fighting he did in Vietnam
(which totally contradicts everything the Democrats have stood for since Vietnam).
They're calling for an increase in the size of the military.
They're saying they want to double the size of the special forces.
They're saying they will continue the war in Iraq until it is finished.
Last night, John Edwards even said to Al Queada:
"You cannot run, you cannot hide and we will destroy you".
Sounds just like George Bush, doesn't it?
This is the most amazing thing I've witnessed in years.
Even the party delegates last night didn't know how to react to this from Edwards.
Truely surreal
I can't wait to hear what John Kerry says tonight.
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Old 29th July 2004, 17:23   #5
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Dear God, papadoc, both major parties are against terrorism. I never saw that one coming.

The bottom line is that the Democratic and Republican parties have almost always been near-identical, and they've hugely exaggerated what little differences they did have to make them seem different, in the past.

I'm just impressed with how thoroughly shit the offerings of both parties are at this point. It seems to me the only good vote in the upcoming elections is one against one, the other, or both.

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Old 29th July 2004, 18:33   #6
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It's not that they're against fighting terrorism.
It's in the ideas and methods they've had in the past, to accomplish that end.
This has always been the party of the dove, not the hawk.
This pro military, pro everything else I stated is a new direction for them,
a new philosophy on fighting our enemies.
That's what's so amazing to me.
If they are truely speaking what they plan to do, and how they plan to do it,
I find this a positive for them.
Time will tell whether they are just talking the talk,
or whether they can walk the walk.
(sorry for the cliche)
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Old 29th July 2004, 18:43   #7
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Neither party's yet shown an ability to walk their talk, so it still seems up in the air to me.

For example, those who were really concerned with fighting terrorism should probably be throwing some question marks over the resources wasted invading Iraq, which could have been spent in a fight relevant to stopping terrorism.

What really worries me is that it's become clear that both parties are more concerned about PR victories than protecting their citizens. It's understandable, but not really acceptable, to my mind.

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Old 31st July 2004, 01:12   #8
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I kinda found it funny seeing Edwards up there on Wednesday night waving fingers and threatning the terrorists...

But I didn't understand Kerry's "speech" up there...It was an 8-minute minute movie on his re-inactments on the Vietnam war, 50 more minutes of he was such a war hero, some more Bush-bashing, and hardly a hint on his 19-year Senate Intelligence background (Which is necessary if we wanted to see the real Kerry as a political figure) or how to deal with "issues" ("Issues", as in education plans, what to do involving terrorism, health benefits, tax cuts, etc.)

Here's how it was last night...The Vietnam war was something Kerry fought in, but protested against, saying it was a worthless nothing war, but here it is again, 30-some years later, we're back at the Vietnam war, but this time he's portraying himself as a "War hero" for something he didn't believe in...He's also saying that we shouldn't have gone into Iraq, it was also a worthless nothing war, it's just like the Vietnam war, and that the war in Iraq shouldn't have been (Although morally, he can't say anything against it, since he and his running made Edwards have both voted for it)...Nothing else too far from this single subject, otherwise...

Those two must still think it's September 10, 2001...The war in Iraq is not a seperate war...It's a war on terror, a war that we've waged after terrorists crashed planes into the Twin Towers, brought both of them down, damaged the Pentagon as well, and killed 3000 people on that single day...We then went into the Middle East, destroyed almost every terrorist camp in Afghanistan and wiped out many members and leaders of the Taliban and al-Qaeda because in the very end of the Sept. 11 tragedy, we should remember it was those terrorists that did all that, and not what with any American did or did not know, or any of that stupid crap...And then we further go into places like Iraq and took out dictators like Saddam Hussein to make sure any possibility of another Sept. 11 doesn't happen from any one of those terrorists countries...

So we do everything we can to ensure we're not struck again from another terrorist attack, but here are the two Johns up there saying that if we'll take a preemptive policy if we're attacked...In this day and age, that's just not enough...You don't wait around for another terrorist attack to take action; You take action so that the attack doesn't happen in the first place...

Other than that, I havn't heard anything at all from Kerry that would make me remotly support him...Terrorism? Make the French love us and talk to the terrorists? You can't talk to the terrorists, and the French probably still wouldn't side with us even if you were President, since they're doing what's in their best nature, and because your name is "John Kerry" just won't change that...Tax cuts for the rich? The top 50% of wage earners pay most of the income taxes anyway, not the bottom 50%...There's not much you can say about education, given the spending Bush has done on this...Economy is growing again, with job rates increasing and the GDP expected to be the highest it's been in 20 years, so all you can do lie and make the people believe the economy is still going to hell...

Realistically, just because you bash Bush won't make you a president if you can't talk on issues, and the whole thing on being a Vietnam soilder won't help either (Just ask Bob Dole)...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
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Old 31st July 2004, 01:59   #9
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I find the Kerry camp to be completely full of crap as the past four days have been nothing but speeches answering what and why but not how they plan on remedying the current politcal situation.

Quote:
Originally posted by MidnightViper88
Those two must still think it's September 10, 2001...The war in Iraq is not a seperate war...It's a war on terror, a war that we've waged after terrorists crashed planes into the Twin Towers, brought both of them down, damaged the Pentagon as well, and killed 3000 people on that single day...We then went into the Middle East, destroyed almost every terrorist camp in Afghanistan and wiped out many members and leaders of the Taliban and al-Qaeda because in the very end of the Sept. 11 tragedy, we should remember it was those terrorists that did all that, and not what with any American did or did not know, or any of that stupid crap...And then we further go into places like Iraq and took out dictators like Saddam Hussein to make sure any possibility of another Sept. 11 doesn't happen from any one of those terrorists countries...

So we do everything we can to ensure we're not struck again from another terrorist attack, but here are the two Johns up there saying that if we'll take a preemptive policy if we're attacked...In this day and age, that's just not enough...You don't wait around for another terrorist attack to take action; You take action so that the attack doesn't happen in the first place...

Other than that, I havn't heard anything at all from Kerry that would make me remotly support him...Terrorism? Make the French love us and talk to the terrorists? You can't talk to the terrorists, and the French probably still wouldn't side with us even if you were President, since they're doing what's in their best nature, and because your name is "John Kerry" just won't change that...
The problem is not that Bush took action; it is that he took the wrong actions. Fifteen of the nineteen hijackers who carried out the September 11th attacks were from Saudi Arabia, yet the US has done nothing to confront that problem. Pakistan sold nuclear material to terrorist-ridden nations,but yet again the US has done nothing to confront that problem.

Priority-wise, Iraq should not have been at the top of the list. There was no sufficient evidence of a link between the Hussein regime and al-Qaeda. There are far greater threats abound.
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Old 31st July 2004, 02:48   #10
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What about those members of al-Qaeda that were spotted in flight training in Iraq, 9/11, and other such links/attacks?

PBS interview with an Iraqi lt. General and Sabah Khodada
Salman Pak/Al Salman
al-Qaeda was trained in Iraqi camps
Operational relationship between bin Laden and Hussein
More Laden-Hussein ties
More al-Qaeda training
Iraqi agent suspected to have met with hijacker Mohammed Atta
More of the Praque meeting
Saddam controlled terrorist camps
Another Iraq/al-Qaeda connection
More Iraq/al-Qaeda links
Same Iraq/al-Qaeda links
List of Iraq/al-Qaeda connections
Documents of Saddam-bin Laden connection
More 9/11/Saddam links
Complaint of OK City bombing with Iraq
More links of Oklahoma City bombing and Iraq
Oklahoma City bombing and bin Laden
Saddam trained 9/11 hijackers
Spain links suspect in 9/11 plot to Baghdad
Arafat-Hussin-bin Laden links
Iraq’s State Sponsorship of Osama bin-Laden and the al-Qaeda Terror Network
Links of Iraq/OK bombing and Alfred P. Murrah bombing
Interview with Elmina Abdul - Link of Edwin Angeles (One of the cofounders of the ASG) to Saddam Hussein
1993 WTC bombing - Who is Ramsy Yousef?
The I-40 connection between Zacarias Moussaoui and Mohamed Atta
Iraq tempts bin Laden to attack West (December 28, 1999)

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 31st July 2004, 03:27   #11
Namelessv1
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Quote:
Originally posted by MidnightViper88
What about those members of al-Qaeda that were spotted in flight training in Iraq, 9/11, and other such links/attacks?

PBS interview with an Iraqi lt. General and Sabah Khodada
Salman Pak/Al Salman
al-Qaeda was trained in Iraqi camps
Operational relationship between bin Laden and Hussein
More Laden-Hussein ties
More al-Qaeda training
Iraqi agent suspected to have met with hijacker Mohammed Atta
More of the Praque meeting
Saddam controlled terrorist camps
Another Iraq/al-Qaeda connection
More Iraq/al-Qaeda links
Same Iraq/al-Qaeda links
List of Iraq/al-Qaeda connections
Documents of Saddam-bin Laden connection
More 9/11/Saddam links
Complaint of OK City bombing with Iraq
More links of Oklahoma City bombing and Iraq
Oklahoma City bombing and bin Laden
Saddam trained 9/11 hijackers
Spain links suspect in 9/11 plot to Baghdad
Arafat-Hussin-bin Laden links
Iraq’s State Sponsorship of Osama bin-Laden and the al-Qaeda Terror Network
Links of Iraq/OK bombing and Alfred P. Murrah bombing
Interview with Elmina Abdul - Link of Edwin Angeles (One of the cofounders of the ASG) to Saddam Hussein
1993 WTC bombing - Who is Ramsy Yousef?
The I-40 connection between Zacarias Moussaoui and Mohamed Atta
Iraq tempts bin Laden to attack West (December 28, 1999)
How many of those "links" are substantiated?

Quote:
From the PBS interview with an Iraqi lt. General

Did you ever hear that any of these people had been sent by Osama Bin Laden or had any connection with Osama Bin Laden?

I have no information of that kind.
Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed
Selling an Iraq-al Qaeda connection
Powell Admits No Hard Proof In Linking Iraq to Al Qaeda
Leaked report rejects Iraqi al-Qaeda link
Dubious Link Between Atta and Saddam
No proof found to link Al Qaeda with Hussein
The dubious link between Iraq and al Qaeda
Bush rejects Saddam 9/11 link
Rumsfeld sees no link between Saddam Hussein, 9/11
Iraq-al Qaeda links weak, say former Bush officials
Bush rebuff on Saddam, al-Qaeda link
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Old 31st July 2004, 08:34   #12
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[Off topic]Hey, who trained more Al Qaeda troops? Iraq or George Senior? the answer is George Senior...perhaps we should send George Sr. off to Guantanamo for some "interrogation"[/off topic]


But back to the topic at hand, i thought Kerry's theme was a very good one. i would have wished he had a stronger enthusiasm about his speech...it seemed like he was trying, yet you could tell he was trying too hard. He did have some very good moments though. I cettainly think he pulled off a very good speech...and that speech was necessary to unite all democrats under him...he discussed every sector of the American ppl from his own POV and empathy. Congrats John! Well, maybe it was a tad boring, but hey c'mon its politics...noone has ever got a boner from watching a debate...


Kerry's candicacy does have one MAJOR theme throughout: Hey, I'm not Bush.
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Old 31st July 2004, 09:13   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by billyvnilly
Kerry's candicacy does have one MAJOR theme throughout: Hey, I'm not Bush.
A roasting walnut isn't Bush...A bottle of Corona isn't Bush...The rock band Bush isn't Bush...

Come on, people...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 31st July 2004, 16:21   #14
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maybe a walnut would serve as a better president...im just saying people are tired of Bush. Iraq is so very shady right now, the fact that Bush cant say nuclear ....well there are real concerns about the direction he is taking America...i dont like Kerry, but i will vote for the lesser of the two evils.
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Old 31st July 2004, 16:50   #15
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Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

And saying that speech united the party is wrong.
The Democrats were united before that speech,
united against Bush, not united for Kerry.
To prove that point, look at what he said and did in his speech.
Pro military, increased spending to impove and expand the size of our military,
continue the war in Iraq and Afghanistan...
All these things the base of the Democratic party are totally against.
He never said the war in Iraq was, and is wrong, and we need to get out.
His base believes that also.
He trotted out all these military people, and his base cringed.
He's using his time in Vietnam, a war his party hated, now as a badge of honor.
His base doesn't care about that.
He never once talked about his voting record in Congress.
His base doesn't care about that either.
He vowed to give more tax breaks.
His base has never supported that.
And I could go on...
So to me, his base sat there and turned a blind eye to their values,
because it doesn't matter who their candidate is,
or what they say, they're not voting for him,
they're voting against George Bush.

Last edited by papadoc; 31st July 2004 at 18:33.
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Old 31st July 2004, 19:34   #16
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Which is why people need to pay more attention to third-party candidates rather than just writing them off in order to stop the perpetuation of the two-party system's deathgrip on government.
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Old 31st July 2004, 20:37   #17
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None of the links listed show a proven link between the Iraqi regime and Al-Qaeda. The ones that appear to have since been dismissed - a few were extremely transparent lies, also.

Don't believe everything you read.

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Old 31st July 2004, 21:20   #18
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i would vote Nader, but not in good conscience...cause i know he will lose...."A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" was very true in 2000....

i agree with the military thing, he didnt need to go there...if only to try and get some of the swing vote.
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Old 1st August 2004, 15:53   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by billyvnilly
maybe a walnut would serve as a better president...im just saying people are tired of Bush. Iraq is so very shady right now, the fact that Bush cant say nuclear ....well there are real concerns about the direction he is taking America...i dont like Kerry, but i will vote for the lesser of the two evils.
Oh, so you'd vote for a damn walnut as long as he represented the Democratic party, eh? Sits around and doesn't do shit...Seems like a perfect candidate!

Come on...Judging presidents by their accents? I can make immature cracks on Kerry too that have absolutly nothing to do with his political background...

Besides, I think Bush is doing fine with what's going on inside America, domestically, with things like the bonuses, wage hikes, and health care and education benefits...Dare I comment on how Bush is spending more on these policies than even *gasp* Clinton did during the booming 90's?

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 1st August 2004, 16:35   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by MidnightViper88 Oh, so you'd vote for a damn walnut as long as he represented the Democratic party, eh? Sits around and doesn't do shit...Seems like a perfect candidate!
hello, i am a joke, you are not to take me serious....even though "Sits around and doesn't do shit" already sounds like Bush, so yes a walnut would be a good candidate.

Quote:
Come on...Judging presidents by their accents? I can make immature cracks on Kerry too that have absolutly nothing to do with his political background...
oh obviously someone hasnt seen "this land" cuz this was a f'ing joke as well.

Quote:
Besides, I think Bush is doing fine with what's going on inside America, domestically, with things like the bonuses, wage hikes, and health care and education benefits...Dare I comment on how Bush is spending more on these policies than even *gasp* Clinton did during the booming 90's?
yes if your in the top 1% how about the "no child left behind" that he himself urged to be passed, then underfunded it by 7BILLION DOLLARS(he only gave it 2Billion)...sorry kids of the USA we need to build a bomb for this war we are in...Or the fact that he has cut VFW spending by a huge chunk! we dont care about you oldies who fought for us.
yes there are Tax breaks, but seriously, like $300(what the average american got back) is gonna do anything...again it helps the top 1%. he didnt raise the minimum wage did he?
can you prove that Bush is actaully spending more money on domestic policy? or is this just your firm opinion.

So ill assume you will be voting for Bush?

rebuttal plz, but ill prob be done with this convo shortly...cant stand arguing about politics or religion. i like it more when i read your threads about cars anyways
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Old 3rd August 2004, 05:19   #21
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Here's some more laugable BULLSHIT now. The Dems are so desperate... Kerry is saying Bush is helping to recruit terrorists while Dean is saying this new threat against Wall Street is a lie - just a campaign plot.

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Old 3rd August 2004, 05:32   #22
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@Cabo, i agree and im a democrat, wtf?
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Old 3rd August 2004, 06:00   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaboWaboAddict
Here's some more laugable BULLSHIT now. The Dems are so desperate... Kerry is saying Bush is helping to recruit terrorists while Dean is saying this new threat against Wall Street is a lie - just a campaign plot.
Find a single allegation that the Republicans have made against Kerry that isn't. And they've made plenty.

This is not politics, it's simple, immature mudslinging. My personal opinion is that neither Kerry nor Bush are suitable, nor appropriate candidates for presidency.

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Old 3rd August 2004, 06:11   #24
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I couldn't agree more.

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Old 4th August 2004, 04:05   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaboWaboAddict
Dean is saying this new threat against Wall Street is a lie - just a campaign plot.
Isn't it Governor McGreevey of New Jersey announcing these terrorists threats and the actions that need to be taken, the highly partisan Jim McGreevey, and that kook Howard Dean is saying it's all a political stunt?

I also heard that Dean is telling Kerry that the raising threat level is helping Bush but hurting the Democrats...How does a terrorist attack help or hurt anyone? I'd figure when there's an attack abound, people would be thinking "We must stop these terrorists before they strike us!" but instead Dean is worried that Kerry's going to lose the election?

I don't get it...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 4th August 2004, 08:55   #26
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Re: The DNC and RNC

Quote:
Originally posted by Namelessv1
Is there any real point to either one of the national conventions, Democrat or Republican? It's an entire week of vague, generalized, rhetoric-filled speeches and not much else.
There's a lot of "creating a political platform" stuff you never see. It's a shame, but they have become nothing but propaganda machines to most people.


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Old 4th August 2004, 18:18   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by MidnightViper88
I also heard that Dean is telling Kerry that the raising threat level is helping Bush but hurting the Democrats...How does a terrorist attack help or hurt anyone? I'd figure when there's an attack abound, people would be thinking "We must stop these terrorists before they strike us!" but instead Dean is worried that Kerry's going to lose the election?

I don't get it...
The idea is that raising the threat level will take peoples minds off the other issues. Dean is saying the Republicans are doing it when there is no real increase in the danger.

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