ID3v1 & ID3v2 MP3 tag editing in one window

[Maranax]

Hello to all.
At first I want to thank developers of Winamp for making it is a best media player. I miss only one thing in it and now try to explain which.

Many years ago, mp3 file information window was like this:


It was very convenient and informative: user didn't need to switch between tabs to view all information about MP3 file. Just press Alt+3 and quickly get info about presence and content of both tags, then can quickly edit them. It was really awesome !!! File tagging was very easy those days.

Then suddenly things changed and tabs appeared:


Every tag now has its tab. And Basic Info tab (why ? for simplicity ?).
I agree, it may be good when files are properly tagged and there is order and peace in MP3 collection. But things are not always so perfect. Very often downloaded files have a mess in tags, and previous file info dialog helped very much in putting them in order.
Now user have to switch between tabs to view all tags.
To know about ID3v1 tag - click ID3v1 tab.
To know about ID3v2 tag - click ID3v2 tab.
To know size and bitrate - click Basic Info tab.
It is very slow and uncomfortable.
Screen resolutions are growing. When I started using Winamp I'v got 800x600, now - 1680x1050.
It's plenty of room on desktop !
Why squeeze information in a small window ?
Where is the common sense here ?

I wish you very much to implement optional possibility to bring back old-style file info dialog with one-screen displaying and editing of both ID3v1 and ID3v2 tags, like on first screen. Maybe implement basic dialog (like screen 2) and extended (and allow it to be changed in Preferences), something like this:


All in one page ! No tabs ! Simple and clear !
It is only a small change in UI, a hour of work, no more,
but then Winamp will be even better !

Thanks again, sorry for bad English. I think you'v got main idea.

[MrSinatra]

i'm not sure i agree...

first, you only looked at id3 type files. what about other file types? "basic info" is the "unified tag editor" concept, meant to be one UI for any filetype, and meant to update multiple tags if multiple tags are present in the file.

second, lots of people use laptops with small screens.

third, best practices is to strip multiple tags, so most of the time the v1 box would be blank and wasting space for me.

i understand your point, the UI probably does need some work, but i think it needs more thought than this.

[DrO]

the change was to have a unified view for any tag format and not just those of MP3 tags so a tabbed option with a generic overview (Basic Info) which allows for setting of most of the fields on the other tabs was done.

first thing with the mocked dialog is that it pretty much fills my screen (laptop - 1280 x 800 so i can't easily change that) and even though people are generally using larger screen,s it doesn't mean all are and so a lower level still needs to be maintained for it to work (have seen quite a few netbook users using Winamp so a much larger screen would then be impossible to be used for them which would get more complaints).

secondly, where would the lyrics3 and APEv2 tags go on the dialog (as they are valid for MP3 files) ? this is another reason for the tab setup being done so that all known / supported tags can be shown.


i'm not trying to detract from the suggestion but it is quite focused on one file format whereas changing it would completely mess-up the handling with other file formats. so it was changed to make things generally more consistent in how tags are viewed / edited (though a lack of 3rd party interest means its not been used as much as it could be).

maybe the window could be larger but as there is a specified size which was set with the 5.5 release and there are 3rd party-plug-ins which use the interface so changing it would then make then look out of place (really something that should only be changed on a full version bump e.g. 5.x to 6.x) and get other complaints.

-daz

[Maranax]

I see. Things are more complicated than I thought. But I'v got another layout idea.
If we take a close look on current file info dialog with ID3v1 tab selected, we find some free space.


Using it, we can merge ID3v1 and ID3v2 tabs.


The united "ID3" tab could be named "ID3v1 & ID3v2", "ID3 tag", "Advanced", or something like this).
This modification preserves tabs, makes it possible to display Lyrics3 and APEv2 tags in corresponding tabs and makes possible editing both ID3 tags in one window.
Dialog window gets wider for less than 300 pixels for the happiness of small screen owners.

[DrO]

Originally Posted by Maranax

Things are more complicated than I thought. ... Dialog window gets wider for less than 300 pixels for the happiness of small screen owners.

issue with that is it then introduces a mass of more dead space for every other format (including the lyrics3 and apev2 pages) as per the example attachment.

the current design is the best compromise for how things are currently done. or maybe it should all be changed to just a single pane with a list like how mp3tag/foobar2000 does it (personally i'd not like that - as an advanced option only for the id3v2 tag then yes but not as a global thing for all of the id3 tags).

-daz

[Batter Pudding]

Asking a silly question... but why are you even worrying about the older ID3v1 tags? Do you even have any devices that are so old that they cannot support ID3v2?

Be careful that you are not just trying to get a feature in place that has no real use now.


Oh - and another comical thing... your screen shot is an example of why it is not a good idea to have both ID3v1 and ID3v2 separately editable. Have you noticed you have a different name for the album in the ID3v1 and ID3v2 album title field? With Winamp's current unified dialog this is a lot harder to do.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by DrO

as an advanced option only for the id3v2 tag then yes but not as a global thing for all of the id3 tags

i really like this suggestion (which i think i saw you first make elsewhere?); i wonder if you saw the thread where benski is talking about carefully redoing id3 handling? i certainly understand his trepidation, but i think your vision here has the most promise, and given the poor way winamp currently handles / summarily deletes valid frames it doesn't recognize, i think it would be good if we volunteered to test it out, and ask him to implement your idea.

thoughts?

[DrO]

my thought / suggestion was in addition to what he's hoping to do though it'd be down to him to implement if it was liked. it would help to resolve most of the 'complaints' of not being able to see / edit extra fields in the id3v2 and act pretty much like the vorbis extended version.

-daz

[Maranax]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Asking a silly question... but why are you even worrying about the older ID3v1 tags?

Quite the contrary. My goal is to get rid of ID3v1 and tag all files with ID3v2. I'm trying to put in order a pile of mp3 files. But some files have ID3v1 (need to copy it to ID3v2), some - ID3v2 (it is OK, nothing to do), some ID3v2 with ID3v1 but ID3v1 truncated or rubbish like Track01, Unknown Artist, etc (need to del ID3v1), some have different information in the same tag in ID3v1 and ID3v2, like demo.mp3 on my screens (don't know what to do with this), some have correct information among some fields in ID3v1, and other correct information among some fields in ID3v2. E.g. ID3v1 has Title, and Artist is empty, and ID3v2 has Title empty but has Artist and Year filled in. It's a Hell !!! And constant switching between tabs is another Hell. Classic dialog would help me great.

BTW, maybe anybody knows player or tagging software which displays and edit ID3v1 and ID3v2 on one screen ? I'll use it and my sufferings ends.

[DrO]

i'd suggest using mp3tag or one of the other dedicated taggers. Winamp really isn't designed for doing massive edits to the level that you seem to be doing quickly.

-daz

[Batter Pudding]

http://www.mp3tag.de/en/

MP3Tag has some very tweakable options. It can be setup to copy ID3v1 to ID3v2 and then remove the ID3v1 tags by messing around in the option pages.

I have only played with this program a little. It seems powerful, with an excess of geeky options. It is a little annoying that the artwork is done as "folder.jpg" and not the Winamp method of "albumname.jpg" (edit: Been playing with this just now. And it seems to Embed the artwork... which is confusing as the options imply the opposite... I really need to sit and play with this a bit).

It does not have the "side by side" view you are looking for, but maybe a useful tool to add to your toolbox as it can probably do what you want en-masse with only a few clicks.

Edit: haha... funny that I post this as DrO was also typing out the recommendation.

I suggest you play with the program on a "test" batch of files first. I experimented with something just now, and got some rather odd results. The track I tried (Radiohead - Paranoid Android) was incorrectly recognised as Airbag. Which was odd. I assume this must be me using the program wrong. This is what I mean about the Geekyness of it. Not everything is 100% clear, but there is a help file and I expect once you get the hang of it, you'll speed through the changes you are performing.

[MrSinatra]

my advice to maranax; get mp3tag. config it so it will write only id3v2.3 tags. then, select all files, and cut all tags. then paste them back. at that point all the v1 info will be in v2 tags.

as to the art, mp3tag definitely lets you use folder art, at least for display if you tick the right option. i haven't used it to get art, but i'd guess that u could do an action to rename, altho i think "folder" is better b/c it works with windows explorer and b/c it works even if you change the tag regarding the album name.

[pureocean]

I use WinAmp since 1999. And I get used to classic Mp3Tag in one window. Therefore, I'm still stuck in_mp3.dll (v4.1 / File date: 27-08-2007). That build last show MP3 tags in one window. Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/mtgR8q3.gif

Unfortunately, as of next in_mp3.dll changed window style. I can't use because I don't like seperate window style for MP3. But I've no problem with seperate window style for M4a, FLAC.

@DrO,
Is it impossible adding a optional setting like that: "Classic Mp3Tag window only for mp3"

[MrSinatra]

just curious:

why do you use v1 tags? and why isn't the "basic" tab enough for your purposes?

[DrO]

Originally Posted by pureocean

@DrO,
Is it impossible adding a optional setting like that: "Classic Mp3Tag window only for mp3"

we went with a unified 'basic' tab with specific ones after it to provide a better experience across all supporting file types so it's consistent but still allows for format specific needs. as such we're not going to add back in what went before and if it's ok for other formats, i'm not following what makes it so inappropriate for mp3 tag editing...?

and using a massively old in_mp3 just makes me want to cry.

[Koopa]

The cleaned up tag editor was one of the main features in 5.5. I really like, that the tags are split into separate tabs. You still have the ability to copy infos from id3v1 to id3v2 and vice versa.

The mockup you showed looks terrible, would vastly increase the vertical size of the dialog and for other tag formats you have tons of empty space.

Just my 2 cent.

[MrSinatra]

yeah, i'm happy with how it is now too, b/c I don't use v1 at all, (it is obsolete), so it would just add garbage to my exp.

I would however like an "Advanced" tab like other formats have, so ALL tag fields and custom tag fields are revealed and can be edited.

[kzuse]

+1 for the "Advanced" tab thing

[Batter Pudding]

IMHO I like the tagging exactly as it is now. The average Winamp User should not need to know anything about tags. He\she should not have to care if it is a MP3 / FLAC / M4A and if it is a v1.0 or v32.78 or what version of tag.

Winamp should just be simple, clear and consistent. Which is exactly what it is now.

Winamp does a good job of hiding the complexity of file types from the average user. They just need to know that titles can be corrected.

If someone needs an extreme geeky level of tag manipulation then there are third party tools like MP3TAG.

Winamp is nice enough to pop-up the v1 and v2.3 pages for MP3 tags - but I am really glad to see these are hidden away from default view. The average user doesn't need this level of details. Even the poster above who said he "needed" to be able to see the v1 and v2.3 stuff side by side said it is only while he cleans up his tags... so a temporary use.

[kzuse]

Winamp Users are no average users

[DrO]

a main mode (first tab) + advanced mode (extra tabs) is what we're providing already to deal with most users needs and then whatever is wanted for those wanting to do more. it's more on the advanced aspect which is where the requests come from a small part of the user base (which may or may not see additional work for some of the tag formats).