Old 13th August 2005, 19:41   #1
toqer
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My first go at video mixing on the 7btv stream!

Aside from the monumental amount of bugfixings I had to do on the fly, near the end everything went pretty smoothly.

Our config is pretty cool now. Creative just kicked me down some video box called the video blaster extreme or something. Lemme see if I can ascii out a wiring diagram..

PC1 Mixer

PC2 Encoder

PC3 KDJ

DVcam>firewire>mixer

Mixer takes the DV cam, displays its video on the desktop with TV out. Mixer also runs a shoutcast server. During live shows, I broadcast audio coming out of KDJ to mixer, then I run Winamp on mixer and have it tune into that localhost stream. We use a plugin called toaster (shane hird) to overlay titles over the video.

Mixer>s-video>creative vbe>encoder>shoutcast server.

Mixer sends the desktop out over svideo to the VBE which is connected to Encoder. Encoder runs nsvcap, captures the video from the VBE box and sends it to the shoutcast server.

Final piece of all this is the streamripper running on mixer, which records the show for later repeats. For repeats I just load all the streamripped files into my playlist, then play them on mixers desktop.

Anyways, check out the 7 Bamboo stream. I'm not the first to use dynamic titles on his stream, Rava from ravetrax gets that distinction. (ps, thanks for making me play keep up with the joneses Rava)

This is all gonna turn out sweet once we have it tweaked.

--toq
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Old 13th August 2005, 20:30   #2
ken52787
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Is the Video Blaster Extreme just a capture card?

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Old 13th August 2005, 21:55   #3
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Take a look at this card. This was on my wanna look at list.

http://www.matrox.com/mga/workstatio.../apve/home.cfm

It's a genlock with 3 display adapters + an svideo or composite output. This looked like it would be the cats ass for doing your kind of stuff.
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Old 21st August 2005, 06:28   #4
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Update:

RGB to svideo out to capture card looks like ass.

--toq
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Old 31st August 2005, 14:50   #5
kewlnet
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choppy tho.

very choppy.. and you need a much better class of karaoke performers... and wheres your site?.. i would also check out your licensing and copyright position..

as it stands, this is providing a ton of reasons why karaoke is a bad idea..

..when in fact, karaoke can be a whole heap of fun..

sorry to be so negative, but if a jobs worth doing -its worth doing right..right?
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Old 31st August 2005, 15:55   #6
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kewlnet, what hasn't he done right?

Choppy? He runs one of the highest quality streams on the YP. Sure its only 15fps, but thats far from choppy as far as I'm concerned.

Better class of karaoke performers? Since when is karaoke about being a world-class performer? They're at a bar, they're having fun, what more do you want?

Licensing? I'm pretty sure Toqer pays licensing fees so he can use that music.

I guess I fail to see what he isn't doing right. Toqer can speak for himself, and I'm sure he will, but I just got a little fired up because since you've come around, you've defended someone illegally selling XviDs, you've plugged your "network", and you've bashed the most original person in NSV.

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Old 31st August 2005, 19:43   #7
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Re: My first go at video mixing on the 7btv stream!

Quote:
Originally posted by t0qer
Anyways, check out the 7 Bamboo stream. I'm not the first to use dynamic titles on his stream, Rava from ravetrax gets that distinction. (ps, thanks for making me play keep up with the joneses Rava)
hahaha, your welcome i guess. wasn't my intention though... but i'm glad i could help nudge you... ;p

its looking good, was a bit freaked when i saw the size... i didn't think you where going to go 720x480 with the new setup...

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» Gen2 A/V Streams - NSV Video [vp6.2 & 64k aacPlus v2] - 64k aacPlus v2 - 24k aacPlus v2
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Old 31st August 2005, 19:57   #8
Jkey
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/me tuts @ kewlnet..

stream looks sweet as always to me ,
i like t0qer's stream its something you can enjoy with both
friends and family in fullscreen and have been doing so for year.

origonal,well put together ,great idea ! more of what
is needed in the directory

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.
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Old 31st August 2005, 21:52   #9
toqer
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Re: choppy tho.

Quote:
Originally posted by kewlnet
i would also check out your licensing and copyright position..
My position is this.

The bar pays BMI/ASCAP/SESAC for inside the bar. The stream is run by a LLC I formed a few years back. Sesac used to bug the shit out of me for the stream licensing, but something happened, and they quit bugging me.

This is my stance on paying licensing for karaoke performances streamed over the web. If I put a video of my daughter singing britney spears over the web, why should I pay licensing for that? Same thing applies to karaoke. Once somebody sings over the original composition, the value of the original composition becomes zero. It's value is more of a socially additive one that has no real value outside of the immediate friends and family of that singer (and the occasional wanderer from the web)

There are a few exceptions to my argument.

1. Van Halen kicks out David Lee Roth and gets a new singer, yet they keep playing as "Van Halen". Since they are still using the name "Van Halen" DLR is owed some royaltees.

2. Kidz Bop creates a collection of kid friendly tunes sung by kids and sells the crapola out of them. Key word here is "sells" Every song they use, they owe a licensing fee for.

I really want to see how this would pan out in court, in front of jurors. I invite any licensing company to challenge me in court, here in my hometown San Jose. Thing is, they all know i'm right and after arguing with me for 6 months, they've all given up. The chances of any jury convicting me of license infringement based on "the daughter" argument is slim and none. What I have found with toqerTV is a potential copyright loophole under section 11 of the copyright law under "parody", and no licensing board wants to challenge me since it would setup a precedent to broaden the parody scope not only to webcasts, but live karaoke performances as well. This would in turn cause the licensing boards to lose out on a lot of revenue from karaoke venues already licensed, since once the verdict came down they would no longer be required to pay license fee's for karaoke.

Anyways, that's my position, and i'm sticking too it. We pay our ascap/bmi/sesac for in bar, and that's enough.

--toq
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Old 31st August 2005, 22:34   #10
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Re: Re: My first go at video mixing on the 7btv stream!

Quote:
Originally posted by ravetrax
i didn't think you where going to go 720x480 with the new setup...
He's actually been streaming at this for a while, but it should just be 640x480 as the pixels from a video camera and whatnot are actually not square, the properly formatted resolution is either 720x540 or 640x480. Leaving it at 720x480 makes everything look fatter than it actually is... And I also admit that it is one of the best looking streams out there.
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Old 31st August 2005, 22:44   #11
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Karaoke seems to be a unique situation. The rights companies used to leave it alone altogether. I think they kind of bullied bar owners to pay for it.

I wonder what would happen if you didn't pay em at all. Not even in the bar. The amount of money is so trivial that it would be small claims court.

At least here, you can't get lawyer fees for a small claims action, just court cost and the judgement. I've never heard of punitive damage with a small claims court, so what could they really sue you for?. They'd have to do it in a local court, because you can force them to sue you in your place of residence.

And what could they really sue you for?. A few hundred bucks?. That wouldn't pay a lawyer or representative to do it for them.

They probably spent a few bucks on postage and decided it wasn't worth the hassle.
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Old 1st September 2005, 01:33   #12
toqer
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Re: Re: Re: My first go at video mixing on the 7btv stream!

Quote:
Originally posted by sns2015
He's actually been streaming at this for a while, but it should just be 640x480 as the pixels from a video camera and whatnot are actually not square, the properly formatted resolution is either 720x540 or 640x480.
I use the default DV res that my camera spits out (Sony DCR-TRV38)

I tried "Square Pixels" before, and it didn't look right.
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Old 1st September 2005, 08:46   #13
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original? no.

this is not so original. we were running a uk karaoke radio station on live365 years ago. and others were doing it from other countries before us..

we ran the radio because, according to prs and mcps - the audio could not be synchronised with video of the performers or it would infringe copyright. we asked for a licence - they said they did not have one to cover this. we asked them to set one up -they refused.they just were not interested.i hope they have changed their attitude since.

why did we go to prs and mcps? because sunfly said that if these guys were happy for us to do this, they would be too and would work with us.

yes karaoke is meant to be fun. however, there are performers out there who can give a good pertformance -who can actually sing...but they prefer doing so at karaoke, rather than turning pro. it can lead to quite a pleasant evening.

it is choppy - maybe on your superduper mainframe-on-a-desk it runs ok.. but, in stark contrast to other stations like tvgold for example, it plays crap on our system.

i was not defending instamovie but saving you guys from finding yourselves in court. you have no proof the guy is a pirate. until you do - i suggest you shut up on the subject. i have passed the link to the thread to instamovie -if they wish to sue for libel/deformation it will be up to them. just because you don't like the instamovie website is no reason to cry foul.

as for promoting my network - pah! all of you constantly promote yourselves -in your signatures. however, like everyone, i come here for support and also to offer my own experience and support to others. after all -there are things you learn when being involved with the first online tv network in the world (onlinetv)-broadcasting a music channel 24/7, live music 7 nights/week in the us and 2 nites/week in the uk, offering music and movies on demand -legitamately..and building a subscribing viewerbase of over 11 million paying viewers worldwide(and getting our own, on the spot raw footage within ground zero 9/11 for no other reason than our us crew were on the way to set up for that days broadcast from the club we use which was only a block or so away from the two towers and so we were able to provide live on the spot updates online -with that film footage, throughout the entire time). -all well before broadband made it so easy. well before most of the good people here set up shop. and there are things you learn as a BBC Partner isp..

don't have a cow because a newcomer arrives and tries to raise the bar. i am not going to apologise because i come from a land where our home grown tv content leads the world and has done so throughout the history of broadcasting..

you want listeners/viewers right? do you want them to enjoy the experience? do you want them to come back?

even if you are only doing this for your own ego - you should want as many regular viewers to come and enjoy your offerings as often as they can..to recommend your station to friends..even if you are only doing this for yourself/handful of your own friends -you want them to enjoy the station surely?..or is it a case of 'i run a tv station' and hope you are never asked for viewing figures? or worse - get the reply 'oh -you mean one of those internet thingies -don't bother with them myself -they're not very good are they?'

nuff said.
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Old 1st September 2005, 13:35   #14
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First off, when we say original, we mostly mean that it is new content, not people streaming pirated movies and tv shows. However, I find it funny that you aren't considering it original because you had the idea before, but couldn't get the license to do it.

Choppy still, eh? My so called main frame is a Athlon 2500+ with 512mb RAM, I payed $400 for it... two years ago. You're complaining because you're on a slow computer? Comparing it to a lower bandwidth (quality) stream is not far. Not exactly apples and oranges, more like grapes and raisins.

As for InstaMovie.com, I say bring it on. I've justed sent him an email asking him to provide some sort of documentation showing how his website is providing a legal service. If he can't provide any, I might ask the MPAA if they know anything.

As for you being involved in the very first online tv network, what year did you do that? Just wondering.

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Old 1st September 2005, 15:08   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by kewlnet
this is not so original. we were running a uk karaoke radio station on live365 years ago. and others were doing it from other countries before us…

…asked for a licence - they said they did not have one to cover this. we asked them to set one up - they refused.they just were not interested.i hope they have changed their attitude since.

…there are things you learn when being involved with the first online tv network in the world (onlinetv)-broadcasting a music channel 24/7, live music 7 nights/week in the us and 2 nites/week in the uk, offering music and movies on demand - legitamately..and building a subscribing viewerbase of over 11 million paying viewers worldwide(and getting our own, on the spot raw footage within ground zero 9/11 for no other reason than our us crew were on the way to set up for that days broadcast from the club we use which was only a block or so away from the two towers and so we were able to provide live on the spot updates online -with that film footage, throughout the entire time). - all well before broadband made it so easy. well before most of the good people here set up shop. and there are things you learn as a BBC Partner isp..
Ok so let me get this right... you started the first online TV network, your a BBC partner, you have 11 MILLION subscribers, and yet you where turned down to get a license because they where just not interested?

Maybe I’m not quite reading what you typing correctly, but something just doesn't make since about this.

Also [start rant], I’m starting to take your comments a bit personally, because if there is anything Toqer and most everyone else on this forum have been trying to do something, it is to push the boundaries with what we have available. I might not have been named out yet, nor do I care if I am or not, but I consider Toqer a friend, someone I have shared advice and secrets with on the things I have learned with doing what I have done with RaveTrax. and there are other stations out that that I envy for doing what they have done, some people have tapped into old movies, some are following what MTV should had continued to do, some are doing talk shows, some are doing on the fly graphics beat matched to music, and much more stuff, do you hear us bashing what they are doing, no.

if you think you can outdo any of us on anything, shut your mouth and just f*cking do it...

ergg!

Quote:
Originally posted by kewlnet
nuff said.
[/end rant!]


Sorry Toqer for blowing up in your thread, and sorry to everyone else for lashing out, but this guy has for some odd reason just tweaked me the wrong way.

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» Gen2 A/V Streams - NSV Video [vp6.2 & 64k aacPlus v2] - 64k aacPlus v2 - 24k aacPlus v2
» AMPX Player - Web based player that plays ALL streams! [Audio & Audio/Video]
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Old 1st September 2005, 20:47   #16
toqer
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It's cool rava, no trip.

For anyone watching last night, I did square pixels, I didn't like the way it looked. I think my camera natively spits out at 720x480.

kewlnet:
Either your PC in incredibly slow, your video drivers are out of date, you don't have directdraw accelleration, your video overlay surfaces don't work, your connection sucks, or you have some other resource hogging program on your PC.

I've played the stream back on a Cyrix k5 300mhz on an XP system with generic VGA drivers for video. It looked fine full screen, i'd have a qualified, smart person take a look at your PC and give you the answer. I'd look myself, but I charge $75@hour including travel time, with travel expenses paid.
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Old 3rd September 2005, 01:42   #17
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When you want to look at prowess in live production of NSV video, it's Toqer and Ravetrax.

Hands down.
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