Old 6th January 2008, 11:51   #1
kanak
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Lightbulb [Feature Request] Playlist Folders

First off, thanks to all the ml_ipod developers (specially abu who implemented my previous feature request ).

I would like to request a feature, which is present in itunes: putting playlists into folders. In itunes, (i tried it on version 7), you can create folders to put playlists in. When you're using the "auto sync" mode, these folders get transferred to the ipod (last time i checked, itunes didn't allow creation of folders within the ipod directly).

This feature would be very useful and would enable the organization of playlists. Please do consider it.
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Old 6th January 2008, 16:42   #2
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Good idea

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Old 6th January 2008, 17:51   #3
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Well, that is a feature request to Winamp, not ml_ipod, right?

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Old 6th January 2008, 18:54   #4
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Can you be more specific. Are you trying to say that iTunes now allows for a tree structured playlist on the iPod? For example, I can go to playlists...pick a playlist...than sort by Artist, Album, ect?
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Old 7th January 2008, 02:26   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stupifier
Can you be more specific. Are you trying to say that iTunes now allows for a tree structured playlist on the iPod? For example, I can go to playlists...pick a playlist...than sort by Artist, Album, ect?
Not quite. You can create folders to store related playlists inside... it's merely an organizational convenience.

Example:
let's say you have three playlists: Favorite Jazz, Favorite Blues and Favorite Rock. You can create a playlist in itunes and store these three playlists inside a folder you create (say, Favorites). When you click on the folder, it displays the contents of all three playlists. On an ipod, however, if you go to playlists, ipod displays a menu called favorites, and when you click it, you're shown your three playlists. Helpful if you have a lot of playlists.


Quote:
Originally posted by abu
Well, that is a feature request to Winamp, not ml_ipod, right?
Hmm... are you saying that if this is implemented in winamp, it'll "automatically" be implemented in ml_ipod?
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Old 7th January 2008, 06:27   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by kanak
are you saying that if this is implemented in winamp, it'll "automatically" be implemented in ml_ipod?
Not quite. But having something like this implemented in Winamp is required. ml_ipod can do nothing to the way that Winamp presents and organizes its playlists. If they have these subfolders, we can think about how to transfer this structure to the iPod.

But then again: It would be possible to rearrange playlists directly on the iPod. That would be possible without Winamp's enhancement. As long as each playlist still has a unique name...

I have to think about that. Didn't even know that this is possible on the iPod with iTunes. Thanks for the hint.

Please add this to the feature request list at SF, to insure that it gets tracked. Thanks.

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Old 8th January 2008, 04:12   #7
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I understand what you are saying now..and yes, this would be badass for ml_iPod. Do you know if this feature is limited to only new iPods (6G Classic, iPhone, 3G Nano)?

Maybe this feature can be created by exploiting the tree-structured layout in Winamp's Media Library menu system on the left. Under your iPod in Winamp, each "power-playlist" would have a sub-menu to place more playlists in.

Wow....I had no clue the iTunes/iPod interface had this capability. That is FREAKIN sweet! Yes, please add that to the feature request list or I will if you don't want to.....
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Old 11th January 2008, 17:08   #8
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Official Feature Request made so this is Tracked.
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Old 11th February 2008, 07:56   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by kanak
You can create folders to store related playlists inside... it's merely an organizational convenience.

Example:
let's say you have three playlists: Favorite Jazz, Favorite Blues and Favorite Rock. You can create a playlist in itunes and store these three playlists inside a folder you create (say, Favorites). When you click on the folder, it displays the contents of all three playlists. On an ipod, however, if you go to playlists, ipod displays a menu called favorites, and when you click it, you're shown your three playlists. Helpful if you have a lot of playlists.
How did you manage to create that? I could not find any option in iTunes 7.6 to create such a subfolder on the iPod. Only inside the iTunes library, but not on the iPod.
Or is it necessary to do a full sync in iTunes to have that (I use the "manually manage music")?

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Old 11th February 2008, 10:04   #10
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I also didn't know this was possible... I it would pretty cool to be able to organize playlists like that, not that I have a huge list of playlists, but would be nice nevertheless as I am a very organized guy...

@abu
What if you save the playlists names and the category (folder) associated with that playlist on some configuration file or xml file. Like a little database where you keep record of which playlist belongs to each folder. Then, when syncing the playlists you would just need to check which playlist belongs where and create the iTunesDB accordingly. Of course, the iTunesDB part might be tricky, I don't know... But I believe that to be the hardest part and not how exactly to organize them in Winamp... Or maybe I'm not seeing something here about Winamp that you already know.
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Old 11th February 2008, 12:57   #11
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Yes, the iTunesDB part will be the interesting stuff. That's why I wanted to create it with iTunes, to analyze it. I would love that feature, I have far too many playlists on the iPod...

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Old 11th February 2008, 15:43   #12
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As far as what Stupifier said, I believe you can only create folders in iTunes library and not inside the iPod's library (even if you are using iTunes). Dunno if this is really the case...
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Old 11th February 2008, 18:14   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by abu
How did you manage to create that? I could not find any option in iTunes 7.6 to create such a subfolder on the iPod. Only inside the iTunes library, but not on the iPod.
Or is it necessary to do a full sync in iTunes to have that (I use the "manually manage music")?
Shame on me: I just re-read the initial post of this thread, which makes it absolutely clear: Only if auto-sync is on.

So now I tried it with a full sync, and yeah, it really works. That's a great, great feature.
When I attach the so prepared iPod to ml_iPod, it takes the "folder" as being the podcasts playlist So there must be some similarity in the used bits. I'll have to do some bit hacking next... But I'm quite positive, we'll have that feature soon.

EDIT: Just spent 2 hours on this, it's much more complicated than I thought in the first place. Still couldn't find out how exactly that group listing is built by the iPod FW. An MHOD type 51 is involved, but even if I null the contents it still displays the grouping. Don't know where it gets the information from. One thing is for sure, it's not simply a new field in the MHYP header Too bad.

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Old 12th February 2008, 07:33   #14
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Thanks for putting so much effort in this feature request. iTunes truly did create a fantastic feature. For the moment, are you at a dead end then or are you still tinkering?
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Old 12th February 2008, 08:17   #15
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I tasted blood and now want more ...
We'll see, I'm really after it.

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Old 12th February 2008, 19:29   #16
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Just as a proof of concept:


What's working so far: I can process iTunes' created iTunesDB with subfolders, create a correct tree in the Winamp iPod view (as you see in the image) and I can rewrite this iTunesDB, and the folders are still there. Yes, I finally found the right bits

Still a long way to go: Sorting playlists, inserting and reordering playlists, adding a new subfolder, drag'n drop of playlists between different subfolders, deleting of a folder etc, that all doesn't work yet. And it's already 8h now on this subject I'll give it a break now.

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Old 13th February 2008, 08:47   #17
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WOW! You weren't kidding. THANKYOU! This is gonna be so fuckin sweet when its done. I have great ideas on how I want to use this feature.
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Old 13th February 2008, 22:02   #18
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That's nice to hear
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Old 19th February 2008, 11:46   #19
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Ok, here is the first ALPHA release of this 3.04p01
WARNING: I don't expect this to be stable, but I wanted to give you something to play with. Please test it, and report here.

Create folders with right-click on iPod icon, like playlists.

Actually, I don't know what iPod models and FW versions this feature needs. It definitely worked on a classic with 1.1.1, and it did not on a nano 2G.

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Old 19th February 2008, 14:01   #20
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Damn, your Patch site is down at the moment. I'll keep checking and test this on the 5G as soon as I can.
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Old 19th February 2008, 14:08   #21
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Just tried it, the site is slow, but working...

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Old 19th February 2008, 14:13   #22
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Site magically working now. Whatever, Thankyou Abu. Testing now. I have like 10 minutes.....so, not much I can do in terms of feedback right away
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Old 19th February 2008, 14:28   #23
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Quick Feedback before I have to go on 5G iPod
What I did
1. Created "Sleep" folder
2. Drag+Drop Current playlists into "Sleep Folder"
3. Sync'ed
5. Ejected

Outcome - It didn't work
In playlists menu, the "Sleep" folder is present but it is treated just like any other playlist. Also, it appears that the "Sleep" folder just contains all the tracks of all the playlists I put into it.....No sub-playlists found in it. Just the flat listing of ALL the tracks from playlists in the folder.

Another note. The playlists I drag+Dropped into the sleep folder are now found in the main playlist menu just after the "Sleep" folder.

**UPDATE**
Also tried creating brand new playlist to place in Playlist Folder. Same results.
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Old 19th February 2008, 14:46   #24
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Bad. That's the same result as on my nano.
Seems it only works on the classic

UPDATE: It does not work on the iPhone 1.1.1 either

Does anybody know what Apple says, is this feature for the classic only???

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Old 19th February 2008, 16:58   #25
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I just found the following at the iLounge forums:

Quote:
IIRC, iTunes 7.4 was the first version to show playlist folders in the sync preferences for the iPod, since it was released in conjunction with the new iPod models that now also support the playlist folders. The iPod classic and nano therefore now seem to handle this properly, but of course as you've observed, the older iPod models would not really know what to do with a playlist folder.
Well, I guess this sums it up and this feature is only for Classic and 3G Nano. I have a classic, but I haven't yet tested this feature...
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Old 19th February 2008, 17:23   #26
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Yes, that says it all
That's frustrating, it took more than 15 hours of coding, and now only a small elite will benefit from that. Of course Apple could create a FW upgrade for the older models, but probably they won't - they want to sell the new models. They have never been good in porting new features to the older models. I start to hate that company

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Old 19th February 2008, 17:34   #27
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http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=209375

I have no clue if this is of help to you. Man, I'm sad I may not be able to use this feature until I buy a new iPod. Thankyou for your efforts Abu
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Old 19th February 2008, 18:25   #28
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Hey, that's a cool thing. I just tried it, and it really works. So this could be a workaround for you, stupifier, if I implement some more stuff to fill the notes folder automatically.
But, there is one major drawback: If you use such a link to a playlist on a textnote, you jump directly into the "now playing" screen with the first track of the playlist. There is now way to go "up" to the listing of the playlist contents. If you hit the menu button, you go back to the notes display immediately.
So there is no navigation inside the PL (only skip). Would that still help?

EDIT: I just implemented that (well, only the basics), so please have a look at p02, and play with that. Is that helpful, stupifier? Of course, if it is, we need to create a real hierarchy, at the moment it's just one file that gets created in the notes folder. Just to show what's possible...

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Old 19th February 2008, 18:48   #29
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@abu
Does it mean that this feature, "playlist folders" is really working on the classic and lucky users of that model (or the 3G nano) can use the latest development patch without any problems? Or it may be a little buggy yet?
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Old 19th February 2008, 18:50   #30
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Well, it does work on my classic But it probably is buggy, so I need people to test it I'm sure there are areas that I just didn't think of, that need some adaption or change.

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Old 19th February 2008, 19:01   #31
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Ok then, I'll test it when I get the chance.
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Old 20th February 2008, 00:35   #32
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@Abu,
Quick question:
If the notes/lyrics field of an mp3 is already in use (yes, I do use them) will this feature overwrite it or simply add/supplement it?

**UPDATE**
Tested now using p02 version on 5G iPod. Same result as posted in my previous post.

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Old 20th February 2008, 05:20   #33
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Oh no, that's a misunderstanding.
You have to open Extras->Notes on your iPod, and there I generated a "substitute" playlist list. Read your own link for more info.
In the regular playlist (under Music) you will never get a different result than before

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Old 20th February 2008, 06:35   #34
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Oh, ok....I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I know what you are talking about now.

In regards to the limit using this workaround....I frankly don't mind as I already know what is in the playlist and rarely need to access specific songs in it.

Question about this workaround.
Will there actually be a Hierarchy and not just a flat listing with Sub-Playlists marked by a "-"? Because, currently there is a single notes file that displays similar to the following:
Blah whatever Playlist
Blah Whatever Playlist
Blah all normal playlist as usual
Test Folder
-SubPlaylist in Test folder
-Subplaylist in Test folder

Thats a flat list view...With this workaround fully implemented...you are saying it won't be flat, correct? Meaning, I would be able to click on "Test Folder" and it would lead me to a menu displaying the two SubPlaylists in the "Test Folder". Once a SubPlaylist is clicked....the playlist will play (no song selection). Am I understanding this right?

If so, I personally don't mind this workaround. honestly, if there isn't ANYTHING better, this IS a workaround. A meager one.....but a functional one. Man, what a shame.
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Old 20th February 2008, 07:56   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stupifier
Thats a flat list view...With this workaround fully implemented...you are saying it won't be flat, correct? Meaning, I would be able to click on "Test Folder" and it would lead me to a menu displaying the two SubPlaylists in the "Test Folder". Once a SubPlaylist is clicked....the playlist will play (no song selection). Am I understanding this right?
Yes, that's how I thought it should be.

EDIT: I think it's done. I found some internal information at the Apple site that helped along the way. So I could enhance the basic version quite a bit. It's much, much faster now, and with the larger font.
This is dedicated to you, stupifier, for all your help in the Wiki Grab patch 3.04p03.
Then you'll need to set the hidden setting "plFoldersAsNotes=1" in the iPod ini file. Run Winamp, eject your iPod inside Winamp, open the notes section on the iPod and marvel at the result
BTW: You can add the notes menu item to the main menu, that eliminates the "Extras" click.

If you use the iPod notes for real notes too, set plFoldersAsNotes to 2 instead of 1 and manually delete the main.linx file from the Notes directory on the iPod, otherwise your regular notes won't show up.

Actually, I'm quite impressed about these possibilities of the notes feature. Not so meager any more, is it? Now you need to find a modding hacker that can change the "Notes" string on the main menu to "Playlists", and you're done

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Old 20th February 2008, 11:12   #36
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I just tested this new feture and here's a few thoughts:

- The option "Sort playlists alphabetically on this iPod" doesn't seem to be working. I had it disabled before installing this update, but now, using folders, I want it enabled, but every time I try to enable it and close the config dialog, the option isn't saved. By the way, the sorting should organize the folders first and the playlists inside it. The playlists that don't have a folder, should be below all folders (just like windows explorer). This organization should be visible in Winamp and the iPod itself.

- I created a folder called "Live Playlists" and inside it, there's only 3 smart playlists that come from iTunes (they are represented in Winamp with a little '?' in the icon). These are "Recently Added", "Recently Played" and "Top 25 Most Played". Well, this folder, "Live Playlists" doesn't appear at all nor the playlists inside it. If they are not on a folder, they appear on the iPod.
Just made a few more tests to this and I found out that the name of the folder doesn't really matter. Here's what's happening:
a) Folder with 1 or more normal playlists or smart playlists created in Winamp and at least one smart playlists created on iTunes: The folder is displayed on the iPod, you open the folder and it shows every playlist inside that folder, no matter what type. However, the song counting for the folder, counts songs from every playlist but the smart ones created by iTunes.
b) Folder with only one or more smar playlists created in iTunes: The folder is not displayed on the iPod at all.

- Creating a new folder, a new playlists or even manually sorting the playlists is "buggy". Let's say you have a bunch of folders, every time you do any of these actions, all the folders will be automatically expanded. This shouldn't happen, every folder should retain it's expanded/closed status unless I click on the little arrow to close/expand it.

- There is no way to drag a playlist from a folder to outside of it. You have to right-click and use "Move to top level". An option to drag it would be nice.

- We should be able to drag any playlist to any folder by dragging the file to the folder name. Just like you drag any song to a playlist, the folder name/item gets highlighted, the same should happen when dragging playlists to folders, and they should be moved there of course.

Hope this helps fixing the existing bugs and improve this little cool feature.
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Old 20th February 2008, 11:19   #37
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The drag/drop stuff seems to be almost impossible. You're right, these are all real flaws, but I couldn't find a way to convince Winamp to handle it the way I (and you) want it. The "Move to top level" was just my workaround to this unfriendly behaviour. The same holds true for the automatic expand: There seems to be no way to move an item in the tree view. That's why I have to delete the whole tree and rebuild it every time. So Winamp can't remember the settings for nodes.

The stuff with the live SPLs: Hm, I don't see a reason for that yet. But I'll check.

Sorting alphabetically doesn't work with subfolders, you must manually drag the stuff into order That is due to the internal array structure I wrote about...

Thanks for your report!

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Old 20th February 2008, 11:46   #38
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That sucks... But there most be a way to better control the tree view, I think...

Anyway, hope you can at least fix the bug with live SPLs, which is very annoying and there's no point in using this feature if that doesn't work (for anyone that uses live SPLs).
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Old 20th February 2008, 12:03   #39
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I use live SPLs all the time, but only the ones created in Winamp/ml_iPod. I never had the need for a SPL to create in iTunes. Why do you need that?
Does the folder show if you add an empty regular playlist, or only if there are some songs in it? (Might be that it's a problem with the song count...)

The tree view problems really suck. Actually, in the first place I thought hacking the iTunesDB would be the big deal. But no no, that took ~5 hours, and now it took more than 10 hours already to do that damned tree view stuff. The Winamp API is not comfortable in this respect at all, and I don't like GUI coding anyway.
Is there any advanced Winamp GUI hacker who wants to help? It's not possible to use the normal Windows API calls for the tree, because Winamp doesn't like that and crashes. It#s no fun at all, I tell you.

WinAmp Pro 5.5 with ml_iPod 3.10 + dev.patches (download it)
ml_iPod documentation Wiki - ml_iPod FAQ - search ml_iPod forum - iPhone/iTouch - Found a bug?
Donations to support the ml_iPod project can be done HERE
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Old 20th February 2008, 12:32   #40
Nazgulled
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally posted by abu
[B]I use live SPLs all the time, but only the ones created in Winamp/ml_iPod. I never had the need for a SPL to create in iTunes. Why do you need that?
I can't answer you that right lol, I remember that while ago I thought about this and knew why I wanted an SPL created on iTunes, can't really remember why know... :P

Quote:
Originally posted by abu
Does the folder show if you add an empty regular playlist, or only if there are some songs in it? (Might be that it's a problem with the song count...)
Nope, it doesn't show.
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