Old 18th December 2011, 14:34   #1
andersondonahue
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multiple servers/i may have up to one million listeners

I am starting my radio station soon. I feel as though i will need multiple servers to handle my listener traffic. Can anyone tell me how i do this? As i understand it, 1 shoutcast server will only handle 1000 listeners at 128 bitrate. Is this correct. I would appreciate any help i can get, as i may or may not be technically stupid.

Last edited by andersondonahue; 18th December 2011 at 15:05. Reason: MISPELLING
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Old 19th December 2011, 17:11   #2
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1000 listeners limit for v1 is the result of the OS limit on open files. For linux, you can increases this limit by issuing the command `ulimit -n 16000` (to increase the limit to 16000).

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Old 20th December 2011, 02:24   #3
Bryon Stout
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These are rough numbers but pretty close.

100 listeners tuned in all day for 30 days at 128k is around 4TB of bandwidth. So multiply that by 10 to achieve the bandwidth you need for 1000 and your at 40TB bandwidth. You would def need to be on a 1GigE uplink at least.

What is your budget for a server?
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Old 21st December 2011, 11:11   #4
andersondonahue
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servers

i thought that i could amass multiple shoutcast servers to do the job. as you can see i don't have all the knowledge i need to get this done. so here's the plan. i will put my url onto a dedicated server, all by itself, then use it to send my programming to the shoutcast streaming server. then i will need enough bandwidth from shoutcast to have a larger audience than 1000 listeners. as far as the dedicated server goes, it sounds like you are saying i need a 1GigE uplink at least from my dedicated server, just to serve 1000 listeners. is that correct. i have around $100.00 dollars a month/$1200.00 total to spend on the dedicated server so far. if i buy only three months of dedicated server at one time, i can spend more per month, but i will have to hope for advertising money real quick. and then i still need more bandwidth from the streaming server. i plan on doing a talk show once a week that will draw at least 1000 listeners the first week, and build from there. it will probably go thru the roof. help! also does anyone know how i can assemble a advertising rate card that charges accordingly? more help please!
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Old 21st December 2011, 17:25   #5
Bryon Stout
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Yea you can do relays. I dont know to much about that yet. I haven't really researched it.

$100 a month wont get you what you need (bandwidth that is).

1GigE uplink ded server with around 10tb bandwidth a month will cost about $200 a month
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Old 21st December 2011, 17:26   #6
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Honestly, the only way you will get answers is to do the research and lots of it.
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Old 21st December 2011, 21:48   #7
rockouthippie
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$100 bucks ain't gonna do it. If that's your budget, you don't need to research.

Quote:
it sounds like you are saying i need a 1GigE uplink at least from my dedicated server, just to serve 1000 listeners.
It's probably not that good. Most web hosting companies don't have 150GigE total.

Gig-E usually means it has a Gig-E network card, not that you're gonna get anywhere near GigE connectivity.

Just ass scratching here.... let's see... This is the cheapest, almost no tech support, at times aggravating bunch of Germans you ever crossed paths with. This service is cheap, well connected and it works. It's not oversold. That's rare. Don't expect them to answer their phone, especially if they are having a problem. My webs were up 364 days last year, so I guess?

http://www.server4you.com/vserver/vs...php?products=3

This is their dedicated cloud server hosting product. It's $60 a month. I would expect it to handle conservatively 250 shoutcast slots. 8TB of bandwith comes with. I think that would probably cover it. Maybe not if all slots were always full. You can expect about 25 mbps.... reliable... more in the middle of the night.... I'd use aac and 96kbps if I were you. I'd use Ubuntu 10.10 LTS for the OS.

It's the web hosting company I love to hate. It's also, despite it's quirks, the cheapest, fastest web hosting I've ever used.... and I've used a lot of companies...

Last edited by rockouthippie; 21st December 2011 at 22:58.
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Old 21st December 2011, 23:14   #8
MADxHAWK
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The magic word is DNS Round Robin or Load Balancing respectively a combination of both.
Example: with a "simple" round robin, 5 servers and 1000 listener you may have
200 sistener on server 1
50 listener on server 2
400 listener on server 3
250 listener on server 4
100 listener on server 5

with a load balacing:
190 on server 1
210 on server 2
200 on server 3
195 on server 4
205 on server 5

But a load balacing with dns round robin is not that easy to set up.
The next problem would be you budget, cause you dont only have to pay for the server(s), you also have to pay for a broadcasting license if you dont want to just broadcast royality-free music.

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at times aggravating bunch of Germans you ever crossed paths with
Whats your problem with germans?

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Old 21st December 2011, 23:29   #9
Bryon Stout
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Hey Mad would you know where I can get more info on the load balancing instructions and the round robin info?
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Old 21st December 2011, 23:32   #10
Bryon Stout
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BTW you wont get anything more than a 1 Gbps Uplink. If you do it must cost lots of money because I havent seen any hosting company offer it.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 14:01   #11
andersondonahue
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streaming servers

ok, first of all let me say thank you to everyone who has tried to help me, and to anyone else that might help in the future. i really appreciate the leg up.

this is how i understand how all this stuff (shoutcast streaming server) works. please correct me if i am wrong, as i need to know this stuff, and i am not the most knowledgeable tech guy.

now lets start from the beginning, as it appears as though i'm having a brain fart.
my tech friend says i need a ded server to put my url on, not a shared server. ok. then, i will send my music over to the shoutcast server, and then the shoutcast server streams my music over the internet, but is limited to about 1000 continuous listeners at 128k or so.
so then the listeners will be connecting to the shoutcast streaming server, right. and if that's the case, the bandwidth i need must come from the shoutcast server right. not my ded server.

the whole idea behind my using shoutcast is that it's free, and i don't have a lot of money to start with. once i put some numbers on the board i can charge for advertising, and then donate to shoutcast (thank you shoutcast) or purchase my own streaming servers service.

being a very basic person, i thought that i would only need a very small amount of bandwidth from my ded server, as i am only pushing to the shoutcast streaming server. and most of the time i will be on auto dj, and then all of my programming will be from shoutcast.

ok that's my understanding of all this stuff. anyone care to run it back to me the way it actually works. please remember i may or may not be mentally challenged, so please put it in plain, easy to understand language. many thanks.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 14:08   #12
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all of the bandwidth to the clients comes from you (so that'd be via the server running the DNAS sc_serv on) - nothing comes from SHOUTcast itself (only the tools are provided and a way to be listed so the station can be found, though there are other ways to promote your stream).

-daz
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Old 22nd December 2011, 15:33   #13
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Shoutcast is software. It is free. But you have to install it on your server and so the bandwidth you need is your problem.

If you're doing "Talk Radio", 128kbps is overkill. You can easily get by with 64kbps MP3 mono, or 48kbps AAC+ - significantly lowering your bandwidth costs per-listener.

The TOP stations on Shoutcast pull, at best, 9,000 listeners and they have been at this for years marketing-wise, so your million listener goal, while admirable, is probably not realistic.

My advice - start with a single shoutcast instance, with 500 slots at 64kbps mono. That's about 32 Mbps at peak, which at an average price of $12.00 per megabit dedicated (unshared) high quality bandwidth would run you about $385 a month.

Plus whatever you're paying for the dedicated server.

On a side note, unless you have a massive marketing campaign, you probably won't use the 500 slots. My first 6 months of broadcasting, I was lucky to see more than 20 listeners on at a time.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 16:57   #14
MADxHAWK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryon Stout View Post
Hey Mad would you know where I can get more info on the load balancing instructions and the round robin info?
Well i think google would be a good place to start. Maybe you could also find some information about round robin / load balacing at howtoforge.com what is btw. also a good place to learn basics of seting up and improve a linux server.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dotme View Post
That's about 32 Mbps at peak, which at an average price of $12.00 per megabit dedicated (unshared) high quality bandwidth would run you about $385 a month.
You have to pay for the bandwith? We pay ~ 50Euro = ~65$US including a bandwith of 100mbit and 2TB Traffic. If we reach the 2 TB limit, the bandwith is cut down to 10mbit or we can by more traffic to keep the 100mbit bandwith (about 7Euro = ~9$US/1TB traffic)

- MAD
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Old 22nd December 2011, 19:10   #15
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Thanks Mad. Google is a given, Ill check out the howtoforge site as you suggested.

Cheers.
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Old 28th December 2011, 11:54   #16
andersondonahue
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Round robin

Any word on the round robin/load balancing issue yet?
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Old 28th December 2011, 13:02   #17
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There's no issue. Shoutcast servers will cluster automatically when they are set to relay from a master server. If one is full, listeners are automatically redirected to another in the cluster.
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Old 28th December 2011, 15:09   #18
Bryon Stout
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I googled "shoutcast round robin" and found a lot of info.
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Old 29th December 2011, 18:20   #19
andersondonahue
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bandwidth servers

hello dotme,

so once again i have to ask, does shoutcast provide the bandwidth for broadcasting, or will i have to purchase my own bandwidth. it would appear that i'm still confused.
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Old 29th December 2011, 18:27   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
all of the bandwidth to the clients comes from you ... nothing comes from SHOUTcast itself
-daz
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Old 30th December 2011, 06:27   #21
Bryon Stout
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If you need bandwidth I will have shoutcast packages for sale after the new year once I get my ded server setup. PM me if you are interested.
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Old 30th December 2011, 10:52   #22
andersondonahue
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bandwidth

ok. so the bandwidth comes from me. so what is dotme talking about when he says that shoutcast servers will cluster automatically when they are set to relay from a master server. that's what made me think that shoutcast provided the bandwidth. sorry if i see things as over simplistic. and thank you byron, let me know when you have your ded up.
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Old 30th December 2011, 11:04   #23
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if you have the server(s) listed in the Directory then the Directory will handle the order of the servers provided to clients to spread / move them around within the cluster to spread the load - that i believe is what was being mentioned. if you do not list the server(s) in the Directory then you would need to setup something to do that yourself.

-daz
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Old 30th December 2011, 17:46   #24
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I am going to throw it in again because I think everyone has glossed over it ...

Start small and grow as you need. A dedicated server with 20 slots is probably more than enough for you to start out. Don't go spending all your hard earned money on servers and bandwidth that you don't need or won't use; the hosting companies sure won't refund you for unused slots/bandwidth.

It took me months to sustain 30+ listeners .... the the pain in the ass that are better known as rippers hit ... then I got so pissed that I removed it from any and all public listings.

Anyway, I digress. Start small and see what you really need. 1,000 listeners off the bat is a little absurd.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 22:41   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fc*uk View Post
I am going to throw it in again because I think everyone has glossed over it ...

Start small and grow as you need. A dedicated server with 20 slots is probably more than enough for you to start out. Don't go spending all your hard earned money on servers and bandwidth that you don't need or won't use; the hosting companies sure won't refund you for unused slots/bandwidth.

It took me months to sustain 30+ listeners .... the the pain in the ass that are better known as rippers hit ... then I got so pissed that I removed it from any and all public listings.

Anyway, I digress. Start small and see what you really need. 1,000 listeners off the bat is a little absurd.
I second this. Unless you have a decent marketing budget, you're going to have to work filling in that first 1000 listener slots.

If you're serious about making available 1000s of available listening slots, I recommend EGIhosting.com. Budget $500-$1000 for servers and bandwidth - and budget an equal amount for marketing.

If you're budget constrained, find a stream hosting provider and purchase 50-100 slots and see how it goes.

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Old 17th January 2012, 15:07   #26
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up to one million listeners not a issues if you can spend $$$$$ easily

this can be done with CDN easily

as dotme saying start with 1 server or hosted shoutcast then add more when you grow

48k aac+ will be good to save $$

Icecast Hosting | Shoutcast Hosting | Wowza Media Hosting | Mobile Streaming | Live TV Streaming | Live Radio Streaming
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