Volume Leveling and Winamp

[MrSinatra]

Replay gain and mp3gain are separate.

Personally I don't use mp3gain for lots of various reasons. If a file comes to me with mp3gain already applied, I simply leave it alone and apply RG tags on top.

In my use of RG I can quite clearly hear the effect when it is on, (a file needs RG tags written to it and the pref needs turned on, and I also turn off the eq limiter). I mainly use track gain unless listening to an album, then album gain in that instance. I also use prevent clipping. In rare cases, prevent clipping will distort the RG effect, so try it without that at a lower volume.

[musicf8]

Isn't applying replaygain AND mp3gain kind of redundant?

[MrSinatra]

Not in my case. Again, I don't apply mp3gain to my files. But if a file I DL has mp3gain on it, when I assign RG tags to it, I am assuring it will be at the same relative volume as my other files with RG.

Who knows what target volume the previous user assigned? RG moots the issue.

Also, mp3tag does not simultaneously support track and album gain, just one or the other.

[musicf8]

Sorry that was more directed to Yenni, you're case I understand because it already has it and why go through the trouble of undoing it

[MrSinatra]

Right, and thats even if it has the tag info to do so, and its an ape tag which i don't want anyway.

Others have argued it's double application but it really isn't and wouldn't matter if it were. It's metaphorically the difference between turning the volume knob once, or twice. Mp3gain literally changes the physical file, whereas RG much more elegantly leaves the file in the state in which it finds it, and can be turned on or off on playback, as well as support track and album gain simultaneously.

The only use case mp3gain makes sense in imo, is if the file has to be used on a device which doesn't support RG, which is increasingly rare.

[Msully]

I don't know if anybody is actually monitoring this thread anymore, but wanted to pose a question just in case. This whole replay gain thing is a nice concept, but I'm not entirely convinced that the Winamp implementation works. I am using v5.666 build 3516. What I am experiencing is that the replay gain settings seem to be completely ignored. Using MP3Gain, I processed an MP3 file using "normalization" settings of 82dB and 94dB, then played the file using both settings, while measuring volume with an SPL meter. In both instances, my max dB was virtually identical (+ or - a tenth of a decibel), despite having a 12dB differential in the gain adjustment. (While I am by no means an audio expert, I realize that the gain settings probably don't correlate exactly with actual volume levels - i.e. 12 dB difference in gain not equal to an actual 12dB difference in volume - but there should've been a noticeable difference.) What's more, if I disable replay gain altogether I get the same readings on the SPL meter!!! Replay gain appears to have no effect whatsoever. Anybody else ever notice this?

Well here we are, about a year and 1/2 later, and I have the same exact issue as above, and I don't see that any of the responses came even close to addressing it. In my case, I am only using the built in replay gain feature (not fooling around with MP3gain), and can notice no difference between when the feature is enabled, and when it is not. Please someone provide some feedback that actually addresses the actual issue here - that being that replay gain does not seem to be functioning. Here are some details. Running 5.666 on Win10, update 1908. I can look at the file data and see that replay gain levels have values. Then, when I active the feature in the playback preferences, there is no discernible difference. However, the setting for "Adjustment for files without replay" does take immediate effect when toggling the feature on and off, and when there is a significant value for that setting. And I have not added any plugins - all is as it was when downloaded from the official WA site. I hope this is enough info to go on - thanks in advance for addressing this issue...
MSully

[MrSinatra]

I never use mp3gain for many reasons.

I do use winamps RG and I can very definitely tell the difference between a file that has no RG tags and one that does.

I use track gain most of the time.

The difference between a track with no RG tags vs one with them, is obviously more obvious when the numeric db gain adjustment noted in the tag is a bigger number, as opposed to a smaller one.

U can also use other software to write RG tags, which may be better, bc other software supports the newer r128 method for RG.

[Msully]

I never use mp3gain for many reasons.

I do use winamps RG and I can very definitely tell the difference between a file that has no RG tags and one that does.

I use track gain most of the time.

The difference between a track with no RG tags vs one with them, is obviously more obvious when the numeric db gain adjustment noted in the tag is a bigger number, as opposed to a smaller one.

U can also use other software to write RG tags, which may be better, bc other software supports the newer r128 method for RG.

Mr. Sinatra - firstly, thanks so much for replying to this post.
I believe that the more salient issue here is NOT the relative merits of utilizing the RG tags in a file, nor is it how one goes about adding value to an RG tag in a file, but rather that WA does not seem to be reading and/or processing the tag when the feature is activated AND it encounters a track which carries a value in the RG tag field, which should be especially obvious when as you say, the value is significant.

As Yenni originally pointed out some 18 months ago (and Yenni - if you see this AND you found a solution, please share that with us now!), when the RG option in engaged and it encounters files with very definite and significant values in the RG tag field, the engine that is supposed to process this data and change how we hear the file is simply not performing.

Now... if your saying that it is YOUR experience that when the file has a value in the RG tag field, and when the RG feature is turned on, that YOU can indeed notice the intended effect (that is, the track sounds either louder or softer depending on the value of the RG tag), then I would deeply appreciate it if you could help troubleshoot why MY installation of WA is not performing this function.

In my case, I processed an entire playlist through the RG process, and watched as every file was put through the analysis process. Next, after saving every one, I verified that values had indeed been written to the RG tag - many of those being significant. Then when I played back the playlist with the RG feature activated, I could notice no changes. I would even toggle the feature on and off while listening, and there was never any change.

I hope I have been clear enough about what the issue is, and that you or someone here can offer a solution. Surely this feature has worked for others (it apparently works for you), and I need to figure out why it does not in my case.
Thanks - ms

P.S. And by the way, can you or anyone tell me why the option to "Quote message in reply?" in Quick Reply will not allow me to check the box - I have had to copy and paste the original post in quotes manually.

[MrSinatra]

If u want to quote a message, use the icons in the bottom right of the post u wanna quote.

Verify the tags are in the file with mp3tag.

What file format are u using? What tag types are inside the files?

Make sure the limiter is off under EQ prefs.

What preamp values do u use? Do u have RG limiting on or off?

Post ur info report, which is a winamp diagnostic. Search the forums for it.

I can guarantee u and all that RG does work in winamp. Whatever the failure is for u or others is a unique circumstance.

[Msully]

If u want to quote a message, use the icons in the bottom right of the post u wanna quote.
Verify the tags are.....

Thanks Mr S... With the holidays bearing down on us, this might have to take a back seat for minute, but I WILL get back to it...
ms

[Msully]

By the way though, I just noticed that when I added a folder of WAV files, WA does NOT display the "Album". Couldn't find anything in a forum search - any clues? I used Mp3tag to standardize all the file tags, so things should work correctly. Everything else is in order - just won't display the "Album".
ms

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Msully

By the way though, I just noticed that when I added a folder of WAV files, WA does NOT display the "Album". Couldn't find anything in a forum search - any clues? I used Mp3tag to standardize all the file tags, so things should work correctly. Everything else is in order - just won't display the "Album".
ms

So long story short, u need to convert your wavs to ALAC m4a or FLAC files. The reason is those formats are lossless, but save space over wavs, and most importantly properly support tags. Wavs basically don't support tags, ergo ur lack of RG or album tags.

I like ALAC bc apple natively supports it. Search the forums for thinktinks excellent ALAC encoder.

[Msully]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

So long story short, u need to convert your wavs to ALAC m4a or FLAC files. The reason is those formats are lossless, but save space over wavs, and most importantly properly support tags. Wavs basically don't support tags, ergo ur lack of RG or album tags.

I like ALAC bc apple natively supports it. Search the forums for thinktinks excellent ALAC encoder.

Thanks again Mr. S.
As a point of clarification, my problem with RG was definitely associated with my MP3 library - I only have a few WAV files, and this was the first that I had added any to WA.

Again, I will work through your earlier suggestions on figuring out my RG issues and will get back to you when I do...
ms

[Ken]

I have been streaming audio for a few years now. Regardless of the playout software you use, 90% of the "heavy lifting" is done if Replaygain is supported. Minimal active audio processing will be needed to maintain a pleasing sound.

Ken

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Ken

I have been streaming audio for a few years now. Regardless of the playout software you use, 90% of the "heavy lifting" is done if Replaygain is supported. Minimal active audio processing will be needed to maintain a pleasing sound.

Ken

to be clear, i believe you mean as a broadcaster. as a listener, ur at the mercy of the broadcaster.

so, if i broadcast my files to the net, and i use winamp, SC, etc, i will use RG on playback / encoding, and that will make my output signal nice and steady without compression or limiting. (obviously, i am not talking about initial encoding, SC reencoding, or SC transcoding. most of my files are 256kbps mp3, and i'm not clear even if the stream is 256kbps mp3 if they still don't get trans or re-encoded again)

anyway, the point to me is this:

RG isn't something that really applies to listening to webstreams. the broadcaster has to handle it on their end.

[gulbis37]

Exactly,it seems,it doesn't work even when it's marked in Preferences. Every time she Winamp crash I do RG manually again for entire library.

[DJ Egg]

The ReplayGain feature in Winamp 5.666 or 5.8 is most certainly working.
If it's not working for you then:

1. Post a Winamp Info Tool log so we can see if there's any 3rd-party plugins present.

2. Confirm the file formats which you are trying to apply RG (Winamp supports RG for mp3, mp4/m4a, flac, ogg, wma).

EDIT: On testing, there does appear to be a problem when calculating RG for .ogg files

3. Confirm the RG features are enabled in Winamp => Prefs => Playback => ReplayGain

Use RG = checked
Amplification mode = ?
Preferred source =?

4. In the above cases which report Winamp crashes and you lose all applied RG...
Please confirm that you closed and reopened Winamp after applying RG to your collection.
Or is Winamp crashing during the RG scan process?
If yes, then please also attach a crash log, if one is generated...
The zip will be found in whatever folder is specified in Winamp => Prefs => Error Feedback

[gulbis37]

Originally Posted by DJ Egg

The ReplayGain feature in Winamp 5.666 or 5.8 is most certainly working.
If it's not working for you then:

1. Post a Winamp Info Tool log so we can see if there's any 3rd-party plugins present.

2. Confirm the file formats which you are trying to apply RG (Winamp supports RG for mp3, mp4/m4a, flac, ogg, wma).

3. Confirm the RG features are enabled in Winamp => Prefs => Playback => ReplayGain
Use RG = checked
Amplification mode = ?

4. In the above cases which report Winamp crashes and you lose all applied RG...
Please confirm that you closed and reopened Winamp after applying RG to your collection.
Or is Winamp crashing during the RG scan process?
If yes, then please also attach a crash log, if one is generated...
The zip will be found in whatever folder is specified in Winamp => Prefs => Error Feedback

Report from Winamp info tool

[Mikey7]

I never noticed the clipping I was getting in some specific parts of my music collection until I used Quinto 3.6's Analog VU Meter. Using the instructions here for Replay Gain resolved the issue in those files without causing any of the music to sound dull or otherwise artificially tampered with in some manner. Thanks!