cover.jpg

[Genosaturn]

Ahoy. I've been organizing my MP3 collection for a while now, but Winamp does this annoying thing...

When adding album art (usually a jpg file) to an mp3 with no specified album name, Winamp makes a file called 'cover.jpg' and uses that file instead for some reason. Now, not only is that album art associated with the MP3 you just linked it to, but it now displays that album art for any MP3 that doesn't have any album art. It's a bit hard to explain, hopefully someone here has run into this problem before and found a way around it.

In an attempt to remedy the problem i opened up an empty text file, and renamed it cover.jpg and changed it to read only, but if I do that then no album art will display at all. Bleh. I don't understand why the Winamp needs to make a cover.jpg file, I already have the album art file in the same directory.

Any ideas? Thanks...using 5.58 btw.

[Aminifu]

Hi Genosaturn,

Winamp does not make an album art file on it's own (and can no longer download album art). The Windows OS can and does from time to time, although the files it makes usually are not named "cover". The hidden and system properties of the images files Windows make are enabled, so you need to enable the options to show hidden and system files in Windows Explorer to see them.

A user can use Winamp to place image files in folders using the artwork tab in the <Alt+3> tag editor. If the music file opened in the editor has a populated album tag, then the selected image file is renamed to the value in the tag. If the file's album tag is empty, then the selected image file is renamed to "cover". In either case, the file extension used will match the format of the image file (.jpg, .png, .gif, or .bmp).

Image files can also be copied or moved to folders directly without using Winamp.

1 image file will be used for all the music files in each folder. So this works best when the music files from an album are stored in separate folders for each album.

There can be more than 1 image file in each folder, but Winamp will select 1 file in accordance with the following criteria (or look-up order of precedence):

1. An embedded image in the metadata tags of the files in the folder.

2. A file named %album%.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder (where %album% is exactly the same as the name in the album tag).

3. A .nfo type file (a text file with any or no content) with the exact same filename as an image file in the folder.

4. A file named cover.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.

5. A file named folder.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.

6. A file named front.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.

7. A file named albumart.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.


Files in each music folder (however they got there) that are named as indicated above will be used (or Winamp will attempt to use them) as album art. So a non-image file named "cover.jpg" will result in nothing being displayed when an image matching the first 3 rules is not available. All image files other than the one you actually want used can be deleted, or given a name other than those listed above.

If you do not want to rename the image file you want to use (to the name in the album tag, or to cover, folder, front, or albumart), then create a .nfo file (with Notepad) in the folder with the same filename as the image file in the folder (or embed the image in the music files in the folder).

I embed all my album art so that it goes with the music files if I move them around, such as when copying to a portable device. Also, I don't then need to store my files in separate album folders (I don't recommend putting all the files in 1 folder, but you can use something other than the artist/album structure). Windows, media apps, and portable devices have no problem displaying correctly embedded .jpg images.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Genosaturn

Any ideas? Thanks...using 5.58 btw.

5.65 is the latest, and has much improved artwork handling.

I do one album per folder and I use:

Folder.jpg

and a copy of it in each folder. that's the literal name, and it works with the windows OS as well as winamp.

[Genosaturn]

Thanks Mr. Aminifu! That's a damn elaborate answer! I'll need to read it a few more times to be sure of what i can do

I don't know but I bet I'd probably run into the same issues with Winamp 5.65. That cover.jpg has haunted me for many years and many versions. Not all of my mp3s have an album associated with them...some bits and pieces from here and there, maybe something downloaded from youtube...so there is no album to list, but i still might like having a picture to represent the MP3.

I guess it's not possible to override Winamp's default album art naming criteria and just forego it completely. Even if winamp made multiple cover.jpg and then cover(2).jpg then cover(3).jpg and so on, that might work, but I still don't see the need to create a cover.jpg when I already have the image file there in the first place.

For mp3s with the album name listed (which is about 90% or more of my mp3s) it's easy as hell to add the album art, of course.

[MrSinatra]

I have never seen winamp add album art as cover.jpg

but you can put any song files into any folder/dir and if there is a file in there named:

Folder.jpg

it will work with winamp and the windows OS to display album art.

[Aminifu]

Hi Genosaturn,

Yeah, Winamp's handling of artwork is a little complicated (that's what comes from trying to satisfy the requests of various users over time). What the Windows OS (since Vista) does, does not help matters.

Anyway, there is a bug in version 5.65 that changes the format of album art you transfer to a folder with the <Alt+3> editor. You select a particular format and it uses another.

I suggest you use Windows Explorer instead, to copy/move your album art images to the folders you need them in and rename them in accordance with the look-up rules, until the next version of Winamp is released.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

I have never seen winamp add album art as cover.jpg

It's simple to test, just use a file without an album tag. You already know about the format changing problem, but that does not affect the renaming.

"Cover" is next in the look-up order, if the album name is not available.

[MrSinatra]

i'd ask you for the exact steps but we know how well that worked out last time.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

i'd ask you for the exact steps but we know how well that worked out last time.

Ok, quick and dirty.

1. Copy a file (without embedded art) and an external image to a test folder.
2. Open the file in the tag editor, delete the data in the album tag, and save the file.
3. Reopen the file in the tag editor, switch to the artwork tab, click the "Load Artwork..." button on the left and select the image from the dialog that opens (you may have to navigate to the test folder).
4. After selecting the image, the tag editor should show it on the artwork tab. Click the "Paste" button on the right and close the editor with the "OK" button.
5. Look in the test folder and you should see the original image and one renamed cover.

[MrSinatra]

yes, those steps work. I have never seen it b/c I have album tags and b/c I never use that dialog to add album art, which leads to my next point:

why would ANYONE use that method? it requires you to already have the art, so why not just rename the art file to Folder.jpg in win exp? that's a hell of a lot simpler. going thru the above steps yields you no advantage.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

yes, those steps work. I have never seen it b/c I have album tags and b/c I never use that dialog to add album art, which leads to my next point:

The particular steps don't matter (the file could have embedded art, an image named cover with the same format could already exist and it would be silently overwritten, etc.). Using the editor (in any way possibe) to associate an external image with a file that doesn't have an album tag will yield the same result. Someone with your Winamp experience can easily figure out how to use the editor. The results depend on the rules Winamp uses.

Your earlier statement implied (in my mind, given your experience) that Winamp did not rename an image to "cover". Why you've never seen it doesn't much matter to me. I don't enjoy bickering with you over stuff like this. Exact steps to reproduce were not needed in this case, but I decided to humor you this time to speed things along (and I remembered that you had said elsewhere that you don't use the <Alt+3> tag editor for this anyway, and thus may need a little help to shorten the learning curve).

Since I embed artwork, I don't use the editor's artwork tab for this purpose either. But I took the time to learn something about it before offering related advice. There are aspects I still don't understand (like why the 2 paste buttons, for example), but don't need to understand to satisfy my personal needs.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

why would ANYONE use that method? it requires you to already have the art, so why not just rename the art file to Folder.jpg in win exp? that's a hell of a lot simpler. going thru the above steps yields you no advantage.

Why use it? Maybe because it's there. Many people prefer to stay within 1 app to do stuff, even if that is not the 'best' or 'most efficient' way to do a thing. Some people have learned this particular method and don't make the effort to learn another. Whatever the reason, this method exists and some people use it.

If you are wondering why I would suggest it. I was just trying to explain to the OP what is possible (some things about how Winamp and newer versions of Windows work). It's up to him/her to decide what he/she will do.

And don't forget that Winamp did download art in the past, so the art may not have already been elsewhere on their computer. I very seldom used that feature, so don't remember exactly how it worked. Also, Winamp will not use an image named "folder", if another image exists in the folder (and it may be hidden) with a name higher in it's look-up order of precedence.

Sometimes there may be too many choices and/or consequences, but that is not my fault. It's simply how the 'cookie crumbles'.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

The particular steps don't matter (the file could have embedded art, an image named cover with the same format could already exist and it would be silently overwritten, etc.). Using the editor (in any way possibe) to associate an external image with a file that doesn't have an album tag will yield the same result.

fine. I didn't say otherwise.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Someone with your Winamp experience can easily figure out how to use the editor.

yeah, I even know how to do genres with it. but since I don't use it for adding artwork, and since the steps you provided are anything but intuitive, I consider asking the Q completely sensible. it would never occur to me to hit the right paste button.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

The results depend on the rules Winamp uses.

Your earlier statement implied (in my mind, given your experience) that Winamp did not rename an image to "cover".

then the problem is yours, not mine. I say what I mean, I mean what I say. I had never seen that, that's what i said, that's what I wanted to communicate. if you want to read other meanings and implications and conclusions into that statement, that's your problem.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Why you've never seen it doesn't much matter to me.

and the fact that it doesn't matter much to you means nothing to me.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

I don't enjoy bickering with you over stuff like this.

then don't. you are the one bickering.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Exact steps to reproduce were not needed in this case,

they were needed for me to know how, since I didn't know how.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

but I decided to humor you this time to speed things along

too bad you didn't do that last time to speed things along, and not waste everyones time, devs included.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

(and I remembered that you had said elsewhere that you don't use the <Alt+3> tag editor for this anyway, and thus may need a little help to shorten the learning curve).

I never use it for adding artwork, as I explained above, which didn't matter to you.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Since I embed artwork, I don't use the editor's artwork tab for this purpose either. But I took the time to learn something about it before offering related advice.

good for you. I on the other hand like to advise as to best methods.

and just for the record, I have found and identified at least 2 bugs with it's artwork handling that I got the devs to fix. probably more than that actually.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

There are aspects I still don't understand (like why the 2 paste buttons, for example), but don't need to understand to satisfy my personal needs.

goodie.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Why use it? Maybe because it's there. Many people prefer to stay within 1 app to do stuff, even if that is not the 'best' or 'most efficient' way to do a thing. Some people have learned this particular method and don't make the effort to learn another. Whatever the reason, this method exists and some people use it.

if people want to torture themselves, they can find better ways.

using win explorer makes sense not just b/c its far easier, but also because the alt+3 dialog doesn't indicate at all that it will silently overwrite for files in the same dir. SO if you have all kinds of files in one dir, and try to add art to them, you'll just be overwriting it over and over and the novice user won't understand why. using win exp, they would see why.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

If you are wondering why I would suggest it. I was just trying to explain to the OP what is possible (some things about how Winamp and newer versions of Windows work). It's up to him/her to decide what he/she will do.

I wasn't wondering at all why you suggested it; and you later suggested what i'm suggesting, that win exp would be the better way, so whats the beef?

I was wondering, and still am, why anyone would use alt+3 for adding artwork. it makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

And don't forget that Winamp did download art in the past, so the art may not have already been elsewhere on their computer. I very seldom used that feature, so don't remember exactly how it worked.

when you added artwork it would put it in the folder by album tag name. one would assume given the above that if you had no album tag it added a cover.jpg but it might have been a Folder.jpg ...either way it doesn't matter now.

but I don't understand what that old feature has to do with the OPs issue?

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Also, Winamp will not use an image named "folder", if another image exists in the folder (and it may be hidden) with a name higher in it's look-up order of precedence.

agreed, I never said otherwise.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Sometimes there may be too many choices and/or consequences, but that is not my fault. It's simply how the 'cookie crumbles'.

for my part, I was simply giving the OP my best advice. you should not read into my statements things I do not say, it causes problems where there are none.

[Aminifu]

MrS, a typical response, no less than what I expected.

You already know what I think of many of your 'best practises'.

In this case simply adding an image named "folder" (which was all you kept saying) would not have helped anything, since the OP said there was an image named "cover" in the folder(s).

The OP further said Winamp was adding the image named "cover" and using it for some (unknown) reason. I tried to explain why.

Finally, I never suggested using Windows Explorer is better. I pointed out that there is a bug in version 5.65 and suggested using Explorer (for external images) until the bug is fixed. I stated what I do, but did not state a preference for any method nor state which one I think is better. You say not to read things into your statements (not actually said), please stop reading things into mine and/or miss-representing what I actually say.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

MrS, a typical response, no less than what I expected.

ditto.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

You already know what I think of many of your 'best practises'.

like spell checking. and I didn't say it was the best practice, I did say it was better, and it is. if you never want to make any such valid judgments, that's your problem.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

In this case simply adding an image named "folder" (which was all you kept saying) would not have helped anything, since the OP said there was an image named "cover" in the folder(s).

no, once again you read me wrong. I said what I DO. no where did I say I leave a "cover.jpg" in the folder. if he did not know to rename or delete his existing cover.jpgs, which I think he would have, then when he had a problem he would have posted and I could have clarified at that time.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

The OP further said Winamp was adding the image named "cover" and using it for some (unknown) reason. I tried to explain why.

great, at no point did I take issue with that.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Finally, I never suggested using Windows Explorer is better.

oh, I see! so you "suggest using win exp instead" to him b/c its not better?

ah, makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

I pointed out that there is a bug in version 5.65

which I found, but which does not seem to exist in my 5.7b 3444 using your method you posted earlier. if you load a jpg and paste, it saves as a jpg.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

and suggested using Explorer (for external images) until the bug is fixed. I stated what I do, but did not state a preference for any method nor state which one I think is better. You say not to read things into your statements (not actually said), please stop reading things into mine and/or miss-representing what I actually say.

nonsense. it doesn't matter WHY you suggested it or if what you said is even true, the fact is you did suggest it which indicates that the suggestion is BETTER than the alternative.

and as I said earlier, since he has at least some of his files all in one big dir that is not a per album folder style, he couldn't use the winamp method anyway.

you are the one continually initiating and making personal comments. I am not. you are starting arguments. I am not.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

it doesn't matter WHY you suggested it or if what you said is even true, the fact is you did suggest it which indicates that the suggestion is BETTER than the alternative.

Your logic is nonsense. Why can't an alternative just be that, an alternative. It does not have to better.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread unless the OP has a further question.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Your logic is nonsense. Why can't an alternative just be that, an]alternative. It does not have to better.

and again you misrepresent not only what I said, but what you said as well.

an alternative can just be an alternative. I never said otherwise. but what you did was make a specific suggestion for a particular course of action (win exp) over the original load/paste alt+3 method. that isn't the same thing as simply stating an alternative. anyone reading that would know and realize it was a recommendation of one method over another. ergo: BETTER.

[Aminifu]

I will try one last time. This is what I wrote, emphasis added.

<quote>Anyway, there is a bug in version 5.65 that changes the format of album art you transfer to a folder with the <Alt+3> editor. You select a particular format and it uses another.

I suggest you use Windows Explorer instead, to copy/move your album art images to the folders you need them in and rename them in accordance with the look-up rules, until the next version of Winamp is released.<unquote>

Those 3 sentences clearly state what I wanted to say. How your mind sees me implying that Explorer is better, in those 3 sentences, is beyond me. Why I suggested Explorer is clearly stated and the 3rd sentence would not have been used without the first 2. Yet you say why does not matter, even if true, I presented an alternative, so the alternative must be better.

[MrSinatra]

ok, and I will try one more time too.

here is what you said, in context:

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Anyway, there is a bug in version 5.65 that changes the format of album art you transfer to a folder with the <Alt+3> editor. You select a particular format and it uses another.

I suggest you use Windows Explorer instead, to copy/move your album art images to the folders you need them in and rename them in accordance with the look-up rules, until the next version of Winamp is released.

see that? the bold part? that's what is known as a "recommendation"! you are telling him to use that INSTEAD of the alt+3 way! you are doing so b/c you believe it to be better, (as I do as well). whether you think it is better for now, temporarily, or forever or not, has nothing to do with anything! it is not simply stating an alternative, it is recommending one way over another, period, end of story!

and I said "even if true" b/c the bug you speak about, which I discovered, DOES NOT APPLY and IS NOT PRESENT using the steps you so courteously laid out by my request, (at least in the 5.7b, I have not tested 5.65, which is why I qualified it, ie. IF true). you could test it yourself if so inclined since you seem to have 5.65 installed.

and its important to point out once again, that the alt+3 method is of NO USE WHATSOEVER if you have multiple files that should not share artwork in the same folder, as the OP does.

and btw just for clarity, the "alternative" I spoke of in post 14 was the "original alt+3" way, since the context of that sentence was clearly me saying you said the suggestion was better than the alternative. I was clearly not referring to the suggestion as the alternative.

[Aminifu]

MrS, you are hopeless.

How can you say what I believe (are you super-human), if I have not stated it? Why do you chose to ignore the last 8 words in that sentence? You can infer anything you want, but that does not make it true.

The OP implied in post #4 he/she was considering using version 5.65. That's why I offered the warning. That's why it applies. You discovered the bug (it's in 5.65 according to DrO) and that entitles you to what? Many of us have discovered bugs and/or made recommendations that were implemented. Good for you and good for us and good for the app, and that's all, imo.

As for not including multiple files, that should not share artwork, in the same folder, that was pointed out (but not dwelt on) in post #2.

I try to explain what's possible. I try to present the consequences for what users may do (as best I know them). I don't know everything and sometimes don't get things exactly right. I do not try to tell others what to do. I know what's best for me. I don't have your super-human ability to know what's best for someone else.

And for clarity, I meant to use "practises" earlier. I'm not a good speller, but that was not a miss-spelling in that case.

[Genosaturn]

...anyways

thanks again for the halps Mr Aminfu. All my mp3s are in a singular folder, so that's what Winamp doesn't get along with. I think I'm going to keep it that way, though. Just easier to find mp3s like that, for me at least. I will also probably try some other media players, then hate them, then come back to Winamp despite the album art shenanigans. Using a program for 15 years, you get REALLY used to it.

[DrO]

Originally Posted by Genosaturn

to an mp3 with no specified album name

i won't go over what's already been said (other than Winamp doesn't generate album art files unless you ask it to save it which is a manual process), if it's only an issue with files missing an "album" value then i'd still need to do a bit of testing but i can't see why a specific exception for such files cannot be added to skip the cover.* matching (and probably the front.* matching as well) since these seems to crop up regularly enough.

the rest of the behaviour mentioned in Aminifu's initial reply would still make sense to keep with such files i.e. folder.* and albumart.* matching (as those are meant as generic behaviour) whereas cover.* and front.* are more file specific and so if there is no album data provided then would make sense to skip over. the only issue is then that in some users legitimate usage cases that they won't like it so will need to see if the idea works well or not and if it needs a config option to manage it.

no promises, but will see what can be done if the idea is reasonable enough.

[Aminifu]

Hi Genosaturn,

Sorry for all the noise. MrS has a way of getting under my skin. The only way (for now) to keep all the files in 1 folder and have individual art for each one is to embed an image in each file.

Mp3tag is an app that will let you do that. It even has a batch mode to speed up the process, but I suggest not trying to do them all at once. Can't tell you exactly how, you will need to read it's documentation. It can even help with completing the tagging of your files. You will need to monitor for accuracy, but mp3tag does a pretty good job in that respect. Proper tags will let you make the most of Winamp's file management features. Good luck.

http://www.mp3tag.de/en/

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Genosaturn

...anyways

thanks again for the halps Mr Aminfu. All my mp3s are in a singular folder, so that's what Winamp doesn't get along with. I think I'm going to keep it that way, though. Just easier to find mp3s like that, for me at least. I will also probably try some other media players, then hate them, then come back to Winamp despite the album art shenanigans. Using a program for 15 years, you get REALLY used to it.

exactly, which is why the alt+3 load/paste method doesn't work for you, or anyone storing files the way u do. it has nothing to do with a bug, since the bug does not apply to that method.

in your case, embedding is probably the best answer. thinktink has a plugin that lets you do it in winamp. I haven't used it but I hear good things.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by DrO

if it's only an issue with files missing an "album" value then i'd still need to do a bit of testing but i can't see why a specific exception for such files cannot be added to skip the cover.* matching (and probably the front.* matching as well) since these seems to crop up regularly enough.

i'm having trouble following you here, so maybe I misunderstand, but why have them skip the matching? my suggestion would be to do this:

1. An embedded image in the metadata tags of the files in the folder.
2. A file named %album%.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder (where %album% is exactly the same as the name in the album tag).
3. A .nfo type file (a text file with any or no content) with the exact same filename as an image file in the folder.
4. A file named cover.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.
5. A file named folder.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.
6. A file named front.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.
7. A file named albumart.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.

simply swap 4 and 5 above, or otherwise change the order to do generics first. so maybe like this:

4. A file named folder.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.
5. A file named albumart.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.
6. A file named front.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.
7. A file named cover.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder.

and you could even add:

8. Any file *.jpg/.png/.gif/.bmp in the folder. (maybe by pref)

in any case, if the reason the alt+3 load/paste method makes cover files is b/c its first in the current list, changing the list to put Folder.jpg first makes a lot of sense, b/c as u say, its generic not specific, and more importantly, its what windows does and uses. why have winamp make a file that windows won't use? winamp often takes its lead from windows, which is only sensible, so it seems such a reorder would make sense and eliminate the need for any special usage cases.

just to be clear, I think a lot of users have files with no album tags, and yet still associated with album art in the folders, so I hope we're not talking about killing that?

Originally Posted by DrO

the rest of the behaviour mentioned in Aminifu's initial reply would still make sense to keep with such files i.e. folder.* and albumart.* matching (as those are meant as generic behaviour) whereas cover.* and front.* are more file specific and so if there is no album data provided then would make sense to skip over. the only issue is then that in some users legitimate usage cases that they won't like it so will need to see if the idea works well or not and if it needs a config option to manage it.

wouldn't simply changing the order achieve the goal? he only had cover.jpgs to begin with b/c of the alt+3 load/paste function, if the assumption is correct that it defaulted to cover b/c it was first in the order.

and changing the order shouldn't bother anyone, it should be a transparent change, as most users are unlikely to have both a Folder.jpg AND a cover.jpg etc in a given folder. whatever few do, probably don't even know it, and they can adjust simply enough if need be.

[DrO]

swapping will not help as you're still assuming that there is a folder.jpg (no guarantee) and if this is the mis-match of files, it's just potentially delaying _when_ the wrong file will be found or it just shifts it to an incorrect folder.jpg. and using the first found image if nothing else can be found is going to achieve the same affect of the wrong file in most cases.

the point of skipping cover.* when there is no album specified is it will deal with that incorrect lookup and cover.* is more file specific than the ones which follow so if that part of uniqueness cannot be provided then it is not applicable to use it (which is why it comes as #4 and not later as you're going from specific to vague as you go down the list, not jumping around).

and i never said it was guaranteed it'll be changed to do what i'm considering to do anyway as it needs to be tried out first... as it could be it doesn't help or even causes other issues. but i'm not going to be swapping the order of things irrespective of the results.

[Aminifu]

Hi DrO,

I can see how the matching exception you are considering could be helpful for those using external image files. I think it would also be helpful to add a 'help' pop-up to the artwork tab that lists the look-up matching order for image names. I realize this adds work for the translators.

Will you explain why "cover" is used to rename an image associated with a file when the album tag is not populated. My reasoning was just an assumption that fit the behavior I was seeing.

[DrO]

adding the info to things makes sense so will look into it.

i'm not at all sure about the other part and i'm not aware of the code even doing it but would need to try to find some time to rummage through the code to even b able to confirm (or it's just not something i've been doing to replicate).

[MrSinatra]

please don't take this reply as me being argumentative, b/c I am completely content with things as is; but as a matter of logic, I don't understand the reasoning. I probably am just missing something/the intent, like with the last issue where you explained why it will default to jpg instead of native found format when doing a save as, so the point is i'm just trying to understand:

Originally Posted by DrO

swapping will not help as you're still assuming that there is a folder.jpg (no guarantee)

I don't follow you at all. i'm not assuming there is a Folder.jpg, I am simply putting it first in the order so that if someone uses the alt+3 load/paste method described in post 9 winamp will create a Folder.jpg instead of a cover.jpg (that's assuming the lookup order is why the post 9 method creates a "cover.jpg" instead of something else)

if you DON'T do that, than what happens? ...you put your special case code in, and cover.jpgs, which would still presumably be created via lookup order for no album tag albums as per post 9 would then SKIP using them! that's obviously not the goal.

do you happen to know what software even made cover.jpgs? was that like the original iTunes or what?

I agree the first 3 steps should be in that order, but I think after that the order should be by "likelihood" (how common they are) so as to skip less likely steps during a scan. I don't know where the assumption is coming from that cover or front are more likely to be "correct" or "file specific"? again, i'm just asking!

Originally Posted by DrO

and if this is the mis-match of files, it's just potentially delaying _when_ the wrong file will be found or it just shifts it to an incorrect folder.jpg.

I don't understand this either... you can only have one file with any given name per folder, but is that what you meant? ("incorrect folder.jpg")

and a user can always have multiple (differing named) images in a folder, lookup order doesn't change that.

Originally Posted by DrO

and using the first found image if nothing else can be found is going to achieve the same affect of the wrong file in most cases.

again, this is jmo, i'm fine if you don't agree or want to change anything, but I think using any image it finds is better than not using an image at all. and in a related fashion, I think its better if it uses an image (if it can) with an incorrect extension, than not using the image. I respect the opposite opinion as valid, but I do think when it comes to images, winamp should be more forgiving. it would benefit novices, and any power users could sort themselves out.

Originally Posted by DrO

the point of skipping cover.* when there is no album specified is it will deal with that incorrect lookup and cover.* is more file specific than the ones which follow so if that part of uniqueness cannot be provided then it is not applicable to use it (which is why it comes as #4 and not later as you're going from specific to vague as you go down the list, not jumping around).

why is "cover" (or front) more "file specific" than folder? in your earlier post, I thought you meant it was 'less common' than folder, so my misunderstanding; but a slightly different meaning that I don't understand in its origin?

also, if what you say is true, the current lookup order is wrong. it goes specific, generic, specific, generic.

Originally Posted by DrO

and i never said it was guaranteed it'll be changed to do what i'm considering to do anyway as it needs to be tried out first... as it could be it doesn't help or even causes other issues. but i'm not going to be swapping the order of things irrespective of the results.

I understand, again, none of this is likely to affect me. but the issue I laid out above would require even more special case coding, assuming the lookup order determines filename used/created in the load/paste method.

just a suggestion, but maybe the lookup method could be exposed via ini? this could have a lot of benefits, like using winamp to show you art for only those files which have any embedded, that kind of thing. and you could possibly have a function where it shows you an image if any is there, but you can qualify it by saying unless/don't show Folder.* so in that way you could see all images which didn't have the Folder filename.

in my case, I would disable winamp looking for any art other than embeds or Folder.* and that might give me a scan time boost, and I might even at times disable embeds.

and if the lookup order does determine filename used for the post 9 method, a user could set it to suit themselves.

[DrO]

i'm sorry but that is all just coming across as a well of text to the point that it's tl;dr and whatever point you're trying to make (as it's not clearly obvious), is not going to affect what happens or not. the only thing that is confirmed as happening is a help message somewhere to detail what the order of things is.

[MrSinatra]

It would be to your benefit, not mine, to read it, as what you have proposed in special case handling will not work. just b/c its long doesn't mean it's unreadable.

[DrO]

try reading it on a small screen (as i am at the moment). as i'm getting r.s.i. from having to re-scroll through this thread. all i am looking at is one possible exception for something that has cropped up more than it should have for whatever reason (be it Winamp's fault or something external). until i even try it (and try to replicate what was being reported) it probably won't even make it in. you say you're not trying to be argumentative as the first thing in your post but that is how it is coming across that no one is doing it your way.

[MrSinatra]

I understand what you are saying, but I am honestly telling you that I am genuinely trying to be helpful. let me be clear, this is NOT my way! the OP and Aminifu do this thing, (as described in post 9), not me. I don't use it, and i'm pretty sure I never even knew about it until this thread. I am certainly not complaining about anyone doing things my way or not!

what I am doing in part, is saying that what you proposed as special case handling (the skipping) will not work as intended. other than that I am simply asking questions and offering suggestions.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

the OP and Aminifu do this thing, (as described in post 9),

As I said before, I don't do this thing. I use embedded art in all the audio files in my collection.

After I determined (quite a while ago) that the artwork tab does not embed art (on it's own), I took the time to learn something about what it does do and something about the naming conventions (to increase my general knowledge of Winamp). I still don't know/understand everything about the artwork tab, since I don't have a personal need to know.

But for those who do use it for transferring external images around, a more direct way (than the route I took) to get info about it would be helpful, imo. Figuring out how to use the artwork tab itself is fairly simple, but the underlying consequences from using it are not provided in an easily accessible way. Maybe a whole webpage could/should be devoted to that and made accessible the way help for advanced title formatting is now. Album art has become important to a lot of users, so maybe it is time for a detailed description of how Winamp deals with it, instead of the pop-up listing I suggested earlier.

FYI, thinktink's plug-in is currently not able to embed art in flac files, due to recent changes to fix the <Alt+3> editor's (former) inability to delete embedded art in flac files.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

As I said before, I don't do this thing.

jesus, who cares? you DO do it enough to know about it and explain it, and that's all I was saying. the point was its not "my" way.

[DrO]

i'm just not in the mood to deal with the crap this thread looks like it's turning into