Old 22nd July 2004, 06:27   #81
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Originally posted by shakey_snake
Here's really my whole pt:
If you honestly think that a console can compare to a gaming PC pricewise and feature/qualitywise, then you're the product of a society that knows how to market.
Holy shit! Must we slap you with the Commen Sense Stick of Greater Justice?

Let's say hypotehtically you wanted to play Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden or Metroid Prime. What do you do?

That's right, you bitch because buying a console makes you a tool of marketing.
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Old 22nd July 2004, 15:53   #82
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@tech, we live in a capitalistic society which is in part propelled by marketing. Its infect a perpetual cycle we all play part to, marketing brings awareness of the product to the consumer, the consumer purchases the product, and corporations use these acquired monetary means from these purchases to innovate their product line, do more marketing, and to hemorrhage the stock holders pockets. If one is adverse to the ways of capitalism then one should stray from the main stream, ie: one should not purchase a Pentium 4 (larg corporation with the heavily marketed and consumer purchased CPU's "baa says the sheep") Nivida or ATI (also heavily marketed) and a M$ OS, instead they should look towards alternatives such as Via or the Dragon CPU,XGI GPU, and some form of Linux distro. Yet again if one does this they wouldn’t be able to play all thoughts marketed PC games, designed to reach a large user base and to make as much capital as possible. Individuals who often who bitch about capitalism are not so ready to forgo its comforts, they often shop and the same plaza's or super markets as you do, they do not however move to the wilderness and live of the ecosystem, or move to veitnam, which I find a bit hipocritical.

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Old 22nd July 2004, 18:36   #83
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Originally posted by EfaustuS9
also I took particular interest in the Sony HDD software when you posted in another thead. Have you since tried it? for if it is proven to work I am quite interested .

Well with is HD loader software you can use any IDE HDD up to 120GB also you can use the offical sony HDD of coarse. right now there is a small list of games that are now compatible and there are some PC HDD that are not compatible with it they suggest to use Mator HDD because they seem to be the most compatible there are a few drawbacks though. one is if you do not have the official HDD you will have to get the network adapter to hook the HDD up to the playstation. you cannot go online with any games due to some verification program on those disks. no gameshark's or pro action replay disks will work with it. and you have to use the HD loader disk everytime to access the games on the HDD. All in all it is a great program and the load times have definetly improved, i got a Maxtor 60GB 7200rpm HDD in my PS@ right now and when i put GTA: Vice City on it it took less than a minite to load trhe game and its faster when you go in and out of buildings in the game too.

i will post the offical website where you can find instructions and more info:

HD Loader for playstation 2

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Old 22nd July 2004, 18:47   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
For this simple reason, I will never buy a console:
My monitor's resolution is better than any TV ever will be (including HiDef).

And another thing, computers are becoming a nessesity for other things than gaming (what are you looking at this through?) .

It's a shame people let the marketers dupe them into first off, buying worthless Dells, and then buying consoles to play games on, while one good comp could last much longer (read: shitty power supplies and out of date RAM) and do more. Think about it your paying twice for much of the same hardware.
Heh, so how many times did you have to upgrade that peace of scap you call a computer to play the latest PC Games. at least with a console you know the games will run at full performance with ever game that comes out. My opinion has always been that consoles are better because they are more cost effective in the longrun fir the fact of what i said already you have to keep upgrading to play the newest games (at full speed and resolution) on a computer yet with a console you get great games new and old that are somtimes much better on a console than on a PC and also i finds the consoles have a better selection of games unlike a pc where most games are made so you can play with a keybored or mouse which is great for some games but imagine playing a sport game or a platformer type of game with a keybord.

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Old 23rd July 2004, 00:05   #85
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@sgt: I can remember the great enjoyment derived from playing the old SNES and even N64 versions of Mario Kart w a bunch of friends (still do in fact), certainly good times indeed. If you find your self ever hankering for some mario kart combatatants and friends are asleep or preoccupied I suggest checking you this out.

Warp Pipe
http://www.download.com/Mario-Kart-...4-10283628.html
I've heard of Warp Pipe before, but doesn't it require a decent internet connection?
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Old 23rd July 2004, 05:27   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by EfaustuS9
Individuals who often who bitch about capitalism are not so ready to forgo its comforts, they often shop and the same plaza's or super markets as you do, they do not however move to the wilderness and live of the ecosystem, or move to veitnam, which I find a bit hipocritical.
Sifting through marketing and exploring all your options as a consumer is a lot different than fleeing communism.
My experiance is that at school last year, many of my dormmates were amazed at what my computer did. Most of them had xboxes, and were amazed at how well my games looked or to put in their words "how many speakers do you have there!?". Secondly, when I told them how much it cost, they were amazed how cheap it was compared to the computers they got, plus there xboxes, plus speaker/receiver set up (mostly stereo), plus their tv's (not a high def in the bunch). The fact is they did not know that such a viable option as a gaming PC existed.
@Devils night
the thing with Pc gaming is this. I have the ability to not run my games at full speed. This is bacause the software passes hardware in graphics ability. The same cannot be said for consoles. Once hardware is released, it doesn't matter if there's new pixleshaders that can be used in the software or not, because the hardware can't run it. and when not running full speed, it still looks better than on any console at the same time , because no one blows their money on a hi-def. And I prob have had far fewer videocards than you have had console systems.
I have a PS2-like gamepad that loves Madden '04. More so than the xbox controller I might add!
@Tech-boy
Their are just as many games that are PC only (at least until console hware catches up, then they get ported). I usually hate the console only games, because i've been spoiled wih fast load/save times, online play, superior resolutions (can you say non-interlaced?), quickload, superior controls in FPSh and options a console could never have. Same goes for with console ports.
[edit](PC ports to a console)[/edit]
-------------
No one has yet to argue with me about how expensive all the other hardware needed to make a console play comparitively to a PC is.


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Old 23rd July 2004, 05:43   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
No one has yet to argue with me about how expensive all the other hardware needed to make a console play comparitively to a PC is.
anyone willing to spend $4330 or $3427 on gaming for just 2 years doesn't need to worry about the money.

.........?.
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Old 23rd July 2004, 06:18   #88
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thanks EfaustuS9 but ive checked out all that stuff already. i also like the llama that is where i first learned how to and fixed my xbox and they are going to buy the xbox i used to fix the xbox i have. lots of straight forward easy to find info and parts to buy. im not ready to mod my box though. not for a while.

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Old 23rd July 2004, 06:37   #89
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to all: I wouldn’t suggest arguing with snake for he is seemingly a closed minded individual. If you note our interactions, you can observe the presentation of countless evidence, of which he will acknowledge none of it or portions of it that are easier to refute(note most recently the portion of my statement to Tech he chose to quote, more so what he omitted). Its obvious to most, that PC gaming is more expensive hobby then console gaming, nothing is necessarily wrong with either, if you have the means enjoy one the other or both, its all good . Ultimately I suggest we just give him a paddle and let him have a solitary voyage down denial .

@white: not a prob white, a friend of mine has a xbox and I did a little digging for him I just figured Id pass allong my findings. Also you may or may not already now this but you can circumvent the xbox’s aversion to CD-R music by recording at CD-R’s @ 4x (memorx prefered,no mod chip req). My friend was very appreciative of that little tid bit (greatly expanded the PG2 sound track).


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Old 23rd July 2004, 09:46   #90
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really now? it wont read anything recorded faster than 4x? thats odd but great to know . i can finally get all my obscure music onto my box. 60 minute long paul oakenfold tracks are good for driving.

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Old 25th July 2004, 00:07   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by EfaustuS9
to all: I wouldn’t suggest arguing with snake for he is seemingly a closed minded individual.
But his glaring logical fallacies prevent my rage-inhibiting functions from compiling properly!
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Old 25th July 2004, 01:06   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by TechBoy
But his glaring logical fallacies prevent my rage-inhibiting functions from compiling properly!
lol

astute observation, you most certainly have a keen insight .

@white: if you have broadband, you might want to check this out. It permits xbox online gaming with out the need of xbox live. One of its esp popular features is that is lets one play Halo 1 online, and its all free might I add.

http://www.xbconnect.com/

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Old 25th July 2004, 03:35   #93
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Oh yes I've used XBC before Its better than GSA I think. I have problems getting it to work with my router (my xbox seems to hate my linksys router) so I just gave my PC a direct pipe to the net when I play on it.

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Old 14th September 2004, 20:58   #94
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Recent Developments

Some Xbox next news has recently bubbled to the surface, pop!


Here are the articles, interesting indeed.

possible Prototype Pic's and info about compatibility
http://gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox/ga...ws/38061.shtml

Xbox next GPU completed (ATI R500)
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18432

Possibly Xbox next's next controller (the bastard child of the Dual Shock and the type S)
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/09...s_6106680.html
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Old 15th September 2004, 01:33   #95
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Seriously, I hope PS3 will be a lot better than PS2.
Why should anyone care how much "better" the new PS3 is compared to the PS2? It's all about how you like to play your games. I'll buy the PS3 because I happen to like the games that come on the PS1 and most of the games on the PS2, (I own about 150 PS1 and PS2 games) not because how feature packed the PS3 will be. The console is supposed to play games. What were you expecting it to do?
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Old 15th September 2004, 08:28   #96
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Well I like its DVD playback since I don't prefer to have a seperate DVD player. I just wish the XBOX had Progressive DVD output for when I hook it up to a HDTV or if I ever get an HDTV. I also like the XBOX's music rip feature because I like to listen to MY music when I play my racing titles. Plus built in networking capability is pretty sweet for all those lan parties that it made possible. Plus the HD is pretty sweet for me not having to buy expensive memory cards.

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Old 30th September 2004, 05:35   #97
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So the new ps3 disc format might be able to hold up a lot of space on the new blue ray disc. im hearing that it might be up to 25gb per disc..wow...
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Old 1st October 2004, 00:05   #98
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Just imagine the load times...
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Old 1st October 2004, 16:15   #99
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yes sony will use Blu-Ray Technology in PS3. Which can hold about 54GB of data vs HDDVD which can hold about 30GB (HDDVD will be used in xbox next).

More below
http://gamepro.com/sony/ps2/hardware/news/38193.shtml

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Old 1st October 2004, 16:33   #100
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Question is, what the hell kind of game are you going to develop that needs 25gb worth of storage, other than some POS that is just full of FMV.

Even on a good day the best PS2 games out there struggle to fill a conventional DVD disc with content

Filling that kind of space with content is probably going to be prohibitively expensive for developers, they are already complaining that it takes 3 years and zillions of dollars to come up with todays games, suddenly they have 4 or 5 times the available space to fill up, will this make them any quicker or cheaper .

Or will it simply make developer lazy?, why bother writing heavey duty compression routines to crunch up your data when there is all that space available, why use compressed audio when you can have bright and sparky uncompressed.

People will be going "ooh wowo, all this disc space, it must be good" when they will more than likely be playing the same games they always have , just spread out a bit more on the discs

Sometimes bigger is not always better.
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Old 1st October 2004, 16:54   #101
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well compression causes longer loading times doesnt it? ...so more space equals less wait right?

imagine nintendo loading hyrule all in one shot?... or konami loading all of dracula's castle at once?

i think that would be nice.

//oh and dont forget that this is one less hurdle for developers....so they may get games out faster.

.........?.

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Old 1st October 2004, 17:27   #102
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True, true, but there again if you are wanting to load the hyrule all in one go, surely you are then almost in the realms of hard drive?

Mind you the progressive loading on Windwaker ruled anyhow, barely a sniff of loading time...
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Old 1st October 2004, 22:25   #103
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why compress your sound in mp3 or ogg or wma when you can do straight out wave? why use mpeg when you can use straight out... raw video... its a tool for developers to use. having that much space doesnt mean every game is required to utilize 30gb of data. nintendo had the same idea of "who would need that much damn space?" with the n64. didnt pan out to well for them now did it.

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Old 2nd October 2004, 07:55   #104
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The newer systems will be complemented with faster (multiple) CPU's and faster Rom drives which should reduce loading times. The loading times for PS2 games vs PSOne games is equivalent if not shorter esp when considering that a PSone was using conventional CD's (700Mb) vs PS2 which is using DVD's (8GB's) and is compiling many more polygons then its predecessor. All next gen systems will be implementing storage media measuring in the 10's of GB's but the hardware should also be much more advanced to adequately deal with these massive chunks of information effectivly, so that the consumer is not so dissuaded from playing these games of the future.

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Old 5th October 2004, 01:44   #105
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Console games are easier to instal. Put disk in. Push buttons on controller. PC games take forever to install. Consoles don't have popups. PC's (if you are a retarded computer user) have many popups that interupt your gaming. Getting online with a console is easier than getting online with a PC. Old consoles can be played forever. Just because they are old doesn't mean you throw them out. Old PC's go into the dumpster.
If you can work on PCs like myself and a few people I know.

Just upgrade, It's just like going from a PSone, to a PS2, or a Nintendo 64 to a GC.

With computers you just take the old stuff you don't need and buy new parts -- JUST LIKE GAMING CONSOLES. And I can get online just as fast on a PC like a console. Popups on a console? Well, for a PC just use popup blockers(Exclusive to google) or FireFox. There's no difference between them, prices, companies, sure. The way you use them, no. I can press buttons and play a game on a PC just like a console.

I'd rather be on a PC though, gaming on controllers that break all the time(like all my PS2 controllers) is not worth it when I've had a mouse for 5 years, and a keyboard for 7.
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Old 5th October 2004, 02:54   #106
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Some facts or atleast something close to em'

WEll ive been lookin at info for the 2 new systems and all indications show that the PS3 will be superior to the Xbox2.

2 words -- Cell Technology

sonys new architecture of processor that has the potential of processing 1 trillion floating point calculations per second, the ps3 will have 2-3 of these. No hard drive again, its not really cost effecient ($50 a pop)

Xbox 2 will feature a set of 3 APPLE g5's which if i say so myself isnt bad at all. the xbox 2 will also not be sporting a hard drive after the horrible loss of money with the xbox (with each console sold you just took $100 from microsoft, you rock xbox fans!)


all in all the ps3 looks to be the best out there, with no word from nintendo, who knows they may be the best.

Both of the console will support blue-ray technology (new dvd format that holds a crap-ton more than a dvd, like 120Gb or so) this is official news announced at E3

-----some links----
http://www.ps3insider.com/ --decently reliable, featured on techTV because of its accuracy--

**no really good ones for xbox2**
THESE ARE ALL BASED ON INFORMATION THAT SLIPPED THROUGH THE CRACKS, NO REAL SOLID ?INFO AVALIABLE... thank you
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Old 5th October 2004, 02:57   #107
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I have yet to have a single Nintendo controller break while I was using it. It doesn't surprise me that you've had Sony controllers break, though. I'm not much of a Sony fan. I used to have a PS1, but I traded it in for some Nintendo games. I've only played an Xbox a few times, and I never did like the controller design, but I haven't used one long enough to know how durable they are.
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Old 5th October 2004, 05:30   #108
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Well if you use PS2 like I have since 2000, it's bound to break sometime. The Xbox clunky design does suck, but if you don't buy the regualr Default Microsoft ones, go with the S-controller by Xbox, they're really small and durable-ly(sp?) compared to the bulky, nasty Xbox design. As for GC controllers? I've never really played GC enough to care, I played it once. Super Smash Brothers Melee, great game none-the-less I haven't played GC much.

I'm used to my PC Mouse and keyboard, and the Xbox/PS2 mainly.
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Old 5th October 2004, 06:59   #109
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Re: Some facts or atleast something close to em'

Quote:
Originally posted by severeon
WEll ive been lookin at info for the 2 new systems and all indications show that the PS3 will be superior to the Xbox2.

2 words -- Cell Technology

sonys new architecture of processor that has the potential of processing 1 trillion floating point calculations per second, the ps3 will have 2-3 of these. No hard drive again, its not really cost effecient ($50 a pop)

Xbox 2 will feature a set of 3 APPLE g5's which if i say so myself isnt bad at all. the xbox 2 will also not be sporting a hard drive after the horrible loss of money with the xbox (with each console sold you just took $100 from microsoft, you rock xbox fans!)


all in all the ps3 looks to be the best out there, with no word from nintendo, who knows they may be the best.

Both of the console will support blue-ray technology (new dvd format that holds a crap-ton more than a dvd, like 120Gb or so) this is official news announced at E3

-----some links----
http://www.ps3insider.com/ --decently reliable, featured on techTV because of its accuracy--

**no really good ones for xbox2**
THESE ARE ALL BASED ON INFORMATION THAT SLIPPED THROUGH THE CRACKS, NO REAL SOLID ?INFO AVALIABLE... thank you
I'm sorry but I read that the PS3 will not get the originally planned Cell processor because it was taking too long to develop. The earilest that this processor could see the light of day was 2008.

The PS3's supposed release date is 2005/2006
----

The Xbox 2 is said to mimick a lot of Nintendo's plans including the multicore IBM Processor and the ATI Graphics chip. This could be as close to universal gaming as ever before since the Gamecube and Xbox are ultra easy to develop and program for. Someone can just simply create a code conversion program to convert the code at will between the new next gen consoles with minor or no performance problems at all.

BUT as usual, Nintendo is ultra-tightlipped about "Revolution". They did the same thing with the Gamecube when they released its code name "dolphin" some time ago. No one other than the workers there knew about its details. But in the end they managed to shock the competition with its size and power for half the cost of other consoles. (which is why M$ is using IBM and ATI now).

The only thing that can really hold Nintendo back is its controllers. THe GC one is good for RPGs and Adventure games but it sucks for most Fighting games and other genres that use a similar control scheme.
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Old 5th October 2004, 23:04   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by koolaidparty
If you can work on PCs like myself and a few people I know.

Just upgrade, It's just like going from a PSone, to a PS2, or a Nintendo 64 to a GC.

With computers you just take the old stuff you don't need and buy new parts -- JUST LIKE GAMING CONSOLES. And I can get online just as fast on a PC like a console. Popups on a console? Well, for a PC just use popup blockers(Exclusive to google) or FireFox. There's no difference between them, prices, companies, sure. The way you use them, no. I can press buttons and play a game on a PC just like a console.

I'd rather be on a PC though, gaming on controllers that break all the time(like all my PS2 controllers) is not worth it when I've had a mouse for 5 years, and a keyboard for 7.
This is a XBoX2 and PS3 thread not a Console vs. PC thread. Stop being a Jehovah witness.

[edit]
I think The PS3 is going to suck because the manufacturing will be to expensive. If the Cell processor isn't going to be used in it than Sony is shooting themselves in the foot. I don't know if Microsoft can pull of a tri-core G5 processor. Those things are pretty expensive aren't they? Nintendo is using ati as well and I think they are going with an IBM processor to but I'm not sure if its a G5 or not.

Quote:
Originally posted by sgtfuzzbubble99
I have yet to have a single Nintendo controller break while I was using it. It doesn't surprise me that you've had Sony controllers break, though. I'm not much of a Sony fan. I used to have a PS1, but I traded it in for some Nintendo games. I've only played an Xbox a few times, and I never did like the controller design, but I haven't used one long enough to know how durable they are.
I have broken several SNES controllers both third and first party (Street Fighter, Killer Instinct) and I have broken two n64 controllers. The n64 controllers are horribly uncomfortable like the GC controller, but this isn't a controller debate is it?
[/edit[

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Old 6th October 2004, 01:32   #111
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No, this isn't a controller debate. I was just throwing some information in there from my own personal experience. And as for comfortability and usefulness for different styles of games, controller designs are a personal preference to each individual.

Anyways, I'm interested in seeing what Nintendo has up their collective sleeve. I don't really care about system specs of course, but the technology is interesting to say the least.
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Old 6th October 2004, 06:38   #112
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This is a XBoX2 and PS3 thread not a Console vs. PC thread. Stop being a Jehovah witness.
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I think The PS3 is going to suck because the manufacturing will be to expensive. If the Cell processor isn't going to be used in it than Sony is shooting themselves in the foot. I don't know if Microsoft can pull of a tri-core G5 processor. Those things are pretty expensive aren't they? Nintendo is using ati as well and I think they are going with an IBM processor to but I'm not sure if its a G5 or not.
Wow, calm down. I wasn't trying to be a 'Jehovah's Witness' So don't go assuming wild things. Plus, someone said something about controllers so I responded. I'm sure as hell allowed to do that.
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Old 6th October 2004, 07:03   #113
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Some facts or atleast something close to em' part II

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I'm sorry but I read that the PS3 will not get the originally planned Cell processor because it was taking too long to develop. The earilest that this processor could see the light of day was 2008.
Any and all sources that i have seen say that they WILL use a cell chip, the reason that the cell chip wont hit mass production for pc untill 2008 is because of a problem with conventional ram and the way it processes, also the chip its self will be connected dirrectly to the motherboard of the PS3 as in set into it so that there is no removing it without damaging it severly. this isnt for security or to keep people from re-making it, because once you understand the architectural theory behind it you can easily (said VERY VERY VERY VERY lightly, it isnt easy to make a processor of any type...) create one, and the information on how it functions is already in circulation.


as for the G5's i was sorely mistaken, i have found that this (http://home.btconnect.com/hgi/xbox2/xsys.html) diagram isnt correct, it was a fake, sorry bout that.

however sony did assure the useage of cell technology to out power any and all processers on the market today (http://www.ps3land.com/news/article47.php)



Watch out for E3 2005 (http://www.ps3land.com/news/article53.php)
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Old 6th October 2004, 07:52   #114
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Old 6th October 2004, 16:58   #115
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Interesting. Sony is a fabless chip company now and so is Microsoft. Leaving Nintendo to eat up a core or two, without contributing to the R&D cost. The next Nintendo will most likely be the cheapest of the bunch again.
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Old 6th October 2004, 17:38   #116
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what exactly is sony/microsoft going to do after next-gen?

games are going to reach their graphical peak with ps3/xbox2(or at least be bottlenecked by developers lack of ability)

i wouldn't be surprised if nintendo just scoops the market back up again after ps3/xbox2 gen is over....but that will still be a while off won't it?

.........?.
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Old 6th October 2004, 22:54   #117
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I don't see gaming bottlenecking. I can only see it flourishing and gaining more momentum. It'll be a couple years(4-5) until we hit some sort of graphical height. It's gone from 2 bit/8bit to nearly 64bit in almost 25 years. I think we can get to a lot soon. By '2008-'2010 I think we'll see 7GHz processors and 3GB memory on video cards.

We'll have to see but in my opinion I don't see the industry bottlenecking anytime soon.
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Old 6th October 2004, 23:46   #118
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Originally posted by koolaidparty
I don't see gaming bottlenecking. I can only see it flourishing and gaining more momentum. It'll be a couple years(4-5) until we hit some sort of graphical height. It's gone from 2 bit/8bit to nearly 64bit in almost 25 years. I think we can get to a lot soon. By '2008-'2010 I think we'll see 7GHz processors and 3GB memory on video cards.

We'll have to see but in my opinion I don't see the industry bottlenecking anytime soon.
I agree. Doom3 has the insane setting which reccomends a videocard with 512 of video memory. That estimate for 7ghz processer and 3gbmemory cards is something I disagree on however. You might just be exaggerating but people were talking about how 4ghz was just around the corner @ 2000. People, we still don't have 4.0 and its 2004. But who knows? We might make a breakthrough.

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Old 6th October 2004, 23:57   #119
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next-gen will most likely be the last noticeable difference with graphics in games.

does anybody really think even half of developers out there are capable of producing life-like graphics?

once these incapable developers come to this realization they will go straight to nintendo......ok, so maybe thats a bit of wishful thinking, but anything is possible.

.........?.
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Old 7th October 2004, 01:38   #120
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Of course they'll be able to go further. The technology is out there, it's just time to find it and get good with it. If you look at Doom 3, Half Life 2, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., etc. The graphics have improved from these crappy 2D animations to full 3D, life-like worlds.

There will be a period where it will be kind of like 1990-1999 over again. Where it was 64 and PSone, but I do think the graphics will go from on-screen to you being inside the game where your arm movements mean what your characters do and you react to the elements. We will have to see, we aren't too sure on what the future brings. Time tells.
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