Old 8th December 2002, 22:18   #1
UnConeD
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End of Whacko

There's no point in stretching, so here goes: Whacko AVS VI is the last in the series, there won't be a VII.

There are several reasons for my 'departure', I'll try to sum up the most important ones:

- My life is becoming busier and busier. College is taking up a lot of time, and I'm not even doing much. Exams are coming up and I find I have tons of work to catch up... AVS has been taking away too much time for me.

- AVS is frozen. It's been ages since we've had any improvement in AVS. We're still stuck at 2.5(.1), with a huge wishlist still growing every week. It's definitely a challenge to keep trying to innovate on a fixed platform, but when the challenge becomes a chore, it's not fun anymore. In Whacko AVS VI I had to spend ages trying to come up with new ideas...
On top of that, we never hear anything from the people who developed AVS, it's like AVS is the annoying piece of software that is still used but that no-one wants to update because its architecture is outdated. I really hope the current Nullsoft-silence is because they're working on an AVS3 that will be hardware accelerated and include all the things we want, but then again that's just wishful thinking: Nullsoft has always been eager to release beta's and previews, so why would they keep this a secret? The same goes for AVS presets on the winamp.com site... non-AVSers find that presets swamp the database, and tons of low-quality work is included in it. It's unorganized and hard to find anything if you don't know it by name.

- I'm running out of ideas. I hinted at it here above, but I'll say it again: making Whacko AVS VI was damn hard. I kept thinking what the hell else I could do that wouldn't look like something that could've come out of packs I-V. I have a few neat ideas, but none of them are possible in AVS without getting an FPS below 0.1 on a shiny new PC. Innovation has always been the trademark of Whacko AVS, so without it people would just get disappointed.

- After 6 packs, people are still complaining about style and responsiveness. You might say that these people are jerks, but look at the ratings El-vis or Fsk or any of the other technically superior packs got. No-one complains about style with them, so obviously they are doing something that I'm not. And if after 6 packs, I still can't make presets with style, then why would I expect a seventh pack would be better? The idea of making technically complex presets was the original idea behind Whacko AVS, yet that's obviously not enough.

I'm going to take a break from AVSing. I might come back in a few months, but that's not a promise, more of a wish. AVS has been fun, but for the reasons above, I can't continue anymore.

Nevertheless I see good things on the horizon, with all the talented authors around .


(PS: For the faq or wishlist, I suggest someone else who feels up to it takes the responsibility. Just bug Rovastar if you want an update, but try to submit everything in copy/pastable UBB code so he has as little work as needed.)

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Old 8th December 2002, 22:31   #2
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It will be sad to see you go, but will you still stick around here at least?

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 3W | 4WW
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Old 8th December 2002, 22:51   #3
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Not really. Hanging around the forums would just be a waste of time if I'm not AVSing.

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Old 9th December 2002, 00:07   #4
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Sad to see you go

I understand your reasons behind. the interest has drained from the WA point of view on AVS and mny other things. And trying to turn the wheels of change is more difficult too.

I fully understaad the coming up with new ideas thing. Ohers pushing the boundaries by creating better stuff with new things to be creative with pushes you to do new stuff without it motivation wanies. I am there myself.

You were a well respected member of these forums and you no doubt inspired many in there life of AVSing. Your input will be missed.

Good verbally sparing with you too.

Sorry too stoned to make a decent reply.

"Rules are for the guidance of wisemen and the obedience of fools"

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Old 9th December 2002, 00:23   #5
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good bye coned...you would be able to make one preset every now and again, just for the hell of it or is this cold turkey for AVS?
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Old 9th December 2002, 01:43   #6
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Goodbye UC, it's sad to see you leave. You were a definite influence on everyone here and will be sorely missed.

::dedicates NDD3 to UnConeD::
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Old 9th December 2002, 02:39   #7
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Sad to see you go, Steven. You've been a huge inspiration to all of us. I can't tell you how many times I've thought, "How would UnConeD do it?" when trying to figure something out. I hope you'll come by the forums occaisionally, and give us, for lack of a better phrase, a piece of your mind

I just want to say one thing: The guys saying that you have no style and your presets aren't responsive are dicks, you've got a shit ton more style than El-Vis ever has or will. Don't be bitter about it; there's absolutely no reason to it.

You're definitely the most original artist to ever do AVS, I can understand you running out of ideas. IF, in your 'spare time', you could try coding a new version of AVS, you'd be bascially a god. Just a thought


Spod geed, and may our croths pass again. Long live Whacko!

"guilt is the cause of more disauders
than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings
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Old 9th December 2002, 05:04   #8
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Just two words: "Don't look back"

Otherwise you will get all sentimental and shit, and nobody likes old sport stars trying to "catch up" the old days

Just leave avs once and for all, if that's your plan. Saying that you might come back is like you never left... Look at El-Vis, he published history and said "NO MORE" and what do we get after that? Yup, Illusions! And after that he starts to publish a loads of single presets at deviantart.com

Ok, now im just talking random stuff...

Anyway, if you say you leave, LEAVE, don't say "I'll be bag" , because if you do so, people will expect you to come back and if you don't come back people will get disapointed and hang themselfs in their bathrooms...



btw. I would love to see Picture Render II , because im going to make "Bitmapped" series in the future too, even though the first Bitmapped was pure shit...



Take care Steven.
In the end, i loved your work.

Texer Resources

Im retarded... err i mean retired!
Probably both...
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Old 9th December 2002, 05:46   #9
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Sorry to see you go. Truth be told, the whacko series is my favourite.

Thanks for all the help you've given others and me. We'll miss you in the forums.

Stoke me a clipper. I'll be back for Christmas.

- Arnold Rimmer
Red Dwarf
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Old 9th December 2002, 07:29   #10
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Shut up Tuggummi!!

Hey wait a minute...
YOU'VE GOT WORK TO DO!!! Finish Render / Picture II, THEN you can "leave"

"guilt is the cause of more disauders
than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings
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Old 9th December 2002, 10:18   #11
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Thanks Unconed for all your AVS packs, you are a true AVS king. Though it is a pitty that you are leaving, may you excel in everything you do in your life.
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Old 9th December 2002, 16:00   #12
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Man, it will be a serious shame to see you leave, I've always considered you a huge inspiration. I hope you'll reconsider and stay, but I know what you mean about Nullsoft, I wrote a rant in my Pack 2 along the same lines.
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Old 9th December 2002, 20:29   #13
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UnConeD, Master of Cubes, quitting the business? Aww, that sucks... but I understand your reasons. As for the idiots that bashed you... well, they obviously don't know what they're talking about. As long as YOU like what you make, you can call it a success, right? Not to mention the fact that just about everybody here loves your stuff... so yeah. I wish you luck in whatever it is you choose to do with your time from now on, and I will be consoled only by the fact that I'll have my hands full for the next 15 years trying to figure out all the presets you've made. Godthpeed, thir.
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Old 9th December 2002, 20:35   #14
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Its so sad to see you go. You always made very creative, original and stylish presets and about responcivness - on beat runing presets were there since since first non newpick presets(Tonic first pack) and you did make some spectrum responding presets too.
Anyway I hope that once you will get bored while listening to music and start making avs again.
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Old 9th December 2002, 23:14   #15
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Whatheshibedishbahhh!!

UnConeD,
Sometimes when I'm stoned,
I put on Whacko for inspiration,
All the Net I have combed
Other AVSers are unthroned,
I hope your not leaving due to,
Tall poppy syndrome,

Ahh shit the best forum member is leaving


I saw this poll in the general disscusions form that hada vote for forum member of the year or something It should'a been YOU UnConed.

Bloody dingo's me wallabe and me wombat's in a bloody kanagroo court. It's all gone to shit Darl' I tell ya.

Well Seriously If your study is lacking because your spending too much time on presets then.... have a break ... If you say your leaving like Tuggummi says, then your cutting off your moral option of comming back. I'd be more inclined to say "Fuck ya's I'm not gonna make presets unless I bloody well feel like it and if you dont like em then you can stick them right up your arse hole so far that you'll be seeing colours every time you open your mouth to say anything."

If inspirations starting to leave you its just because you leaving the learning curve at it's highest point, the presets you find now will be far and few between and only do it when you enjoy it .. dont cut yourself off alltogether... You might regret it and end up being one of those romantic rememberance type ppl, bit gay really..

Don't leave UnConeD this place'll suck with out you.

VisualAgnosia
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Old 10th December 2002, 14:07   #16
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Re: End of Whacko

Quote:
Originally posted by UnConeD
After 6 packs, people are still complaining about style and responsiveness. You might say that these people are jerks, but look at the ratings El-vis or Fsk or any of the other technically superior packs got
i understand and respect your reasons, except for the quoted one, if you value bad ratings that high does that mean you don't appreciate the good ratings at all?

gonna miss your APEs too.
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Old 10th December 2002, 14:15   #17
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No way

Now this is some BAD news.
Steven stop kidding these are serius things you are talkin about . You leave the AVS sceene!? That would be such a waste.
I know you have the right to make desition, but in this case I am personaly forbbiding you from doing it. I mean yeah AVS is curently hibernateing (for about two years now - I still remember my moveing particle, simple ,and a swirll both ways preset days, and that feeling I got when seeing your or el-vises presets, man I wanna do that to),but it wount be like that forever. Do you think that winamp could exist without a visualisation plugin (i hope not)? If that ever happend I would switch to media player imidietly,just for kicks. Even if AVS is an obsuleete piece of software, if we keep produceing quality presets they should be so nice to update it or at least make a new one if they think its out of date. If they dont we'll put our heads together to hack in to theyr comp. and steal the source (and when we do who do you think will have to edit it?). If you dont have any ideas try doing a Whacko beat detection algorithm. That would take care of those "we need more detection" comments.
About the style thing: I mean if you belive in what you do there shouldnt be any problem, just keep doing your techy presets and dont pay attention to those comments (they are mostly written by 13 year old kids with nothin to do). Anyway you got style, most of your intros are awsome and the signature pict. U use in the forums here is cool to (not to talk about presets like mission to mars...) so I dont see whats the problem. If ever in doubt folow a simple rule that sais: Less is MORE . (hint: complementary colors arent the only color harmony around).

About time and school- I hear ya man.

O.K. I got carried away . No I'm serious you cant leave. Just take it easy and do one pack/preset a year. Damn it Steven who will I look up to?

I hate signatures!!
*bangs his head on the keyboard in hope of getting an idea*
Ufihreevf43n98pevfr
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Old 10th December 2002, 15:55   #18
UnConeD
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Quote:
i understand and respect your reasons, except for the quoted one, if you value bad ratings that high does that mean you don't appreciate the good ratings at all?
Of course not... don't forget that this is just one of the reasons, and not an important one. I love all the ratings you guys give me, but there are quite a few bad ratings that aren't of the "u lame virus writ3r don't download this shit! its teh crap!!"-type.

Fact is, I almost never used Unique Tones and similar color effects because they suck frame-rates. And when you're limited to colorcoding superscopes, it all tends to look alike. I tried to use my colormapper to get quick varied color effects, but it still doesn't look as stylish as other packs.

You said so yourself (DevArt, Whacko AVS V):

"technically stunning, but i think it's not too interesting to watch. also i was wondering why the colors always look the same in your presets."

(no offense taken by the way, you're right)

I already know tons of tricks with colormap, so it's not a problem of technique:

if you have a black/white mask, you can use a two-color gradient to map black and white to arbitrary colors in one Trans.

Or, by using a colormap with the regular black/white gradient, keyed by any of the three channels and with Maximum blend mode, you can effectively cancel out of one the primary colors into grayscale. Then you can turn one of those into any other color by doing a maximum blend with a black->color gradient, keyed by the remaining channel.

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Old 10th December 2002, 18:01   #19
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Gonna miss ya, Coned...

Amongst all the AVS presets I have on my computer, yours are the most intricate I've used. Intricate in looks, intricate in creation, and intricate in the way they work.

I just wish other people would open their eyes and see that it takes true genius to create the things you have - nothing of mine even comes close to it. But there are none so blind as those who will not see the truth - the truth being that you kick ass!

Adieu...adieu...I shall remember you, and not just to Herald Square, Coned!
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Old 13th December 2002, 17:48   #20
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Well, i'm gonna miss your work. You wil be a legend for all those who make's AVS.

Wish you luck in your life.
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Old 14th December 2002, 16:09   #21
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I hate to sound selfish but what will happen to Render/Picture II?

-- Jheriko

'Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers'
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Old 15th December 2002, 17:59   #22
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Shit man, that will suck ass ...

THE UnConeD! Leaving forever?!?
Quote:
- After 6 packs, people are still complaining about style and responsiveness.
WHAT THE SHIT?! Who the fuck cares what those bitches whine about ... look at how many people here are praising you! If you are that UnConfiDent, maybe you should see a shrink ... I mean jeebus man, you're a fukken god! I could sit here and try to figure the math of some of that shit out but my brain would probably kill itself! Smarts like yours and the other pro-avs-ers should not be wasted worrying about pathetic ratings and such non-sense. So fuck them and their white horse!

But whatever, you're the shit ... hopefully see ya around!



Edit side note: Oh yeah how's this for a reveiw!?


Ok, here's my "official" (bahahahaha!) reveiw of UnConfiDent's work.
WHAT THE SHIT WAS THAT??!?!? MY BRAIN HURTS!!!! AND I LOVE IT! GO NEON SHROOMS!!! THAT AVS IS THE SHIT!!! GO TIE TUNNEL! WOOT! GO 3D MAZES!!! ACK!! GO FREAKY SPACE INVERTEBRATES!!!!! HELL, HOW SHALLOW CAN PEOPLE BE TO BASH THESE SUPREME WORKS OF MATHEMATICAL ART!?! I give it one billion stars out of a billion!

Now here is my reveiw of those people who complain way too much...

Ok you god-damned motherfukkers, you are shit! Your avs' are just like every other god-damned avs that is all flashy and movement-o-matic. Woo any friggen idiot can make those. (I am a prime example of that! ) But at least you could have some mutual respect for a fellow "artist"(?) but no, you must think you are better or some shit, because UnConeD owns you! GO NUCLEAR WARFARE!!!!!! Bomb the idiots into fukken dust! oh wait reveiwing the morons ... back on track. ok, here's the score ... you get a pi/tan out of a billion [woo the buttons on my calculator are helpful!](that is 0.054886150808003328847998789208 out of a billion){woo go useless number! you rock!}

therefore you suck and UnConeD ate your baby!(not literally, you sicko it's a metaphor)

Rant Rant blah blah blah! Too much swearing? Didn't make much sense? Sorry I was angry at the morons and I'm a little fried and tired ... is it time for my mush?

Last edited by Xenibalt__; 15th December 2002 at 18:22.
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Old 15th December 2002, 20:24   #23
Xion(810)
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Actually, about the unresponsiveness, they just didn't know quality if it came up to them and hit them in the balls (or fucked them in the ass, whichever you prefer). Yes, some of his presets were kind of lacking in six, but he's been doing this for 6 packs, and he's out of ideas. I only did one pack and I ran out of ideas!! (Even though that may have been the world's largest AVS pack, They were pretty low-quality).

UnConed, if there is a new version out and you're bored off your ass, make a preset.

Here's an idea: A Rush Hour Pack. Each Preset uses only One Hour to make, from start to finish. An Hour is not very much, and if you make a pack of ten that's not even half a day spent on this!

Just don't do this during Finals.
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Old 15th December 2002, 22:32   #24
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Hmmm... pi/tan isn't even an actual number. You must have done pi/tan(pi) where pi was in degrees instead of radians.

Xion: Before my sixth pack I hadn't spent an hour on a single preset.. some of J7 was even made in less than an hour. An hour is tons of time to make an AVS preset.

Anyway, the real intent of my post is:

Please can we *NOT* turn this thread into a 'begging UnConeD back to AVS' thread, that would be lame. Its his decision... live with it.

-- Jheriko

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Old 16th December 2002, 05:55   #25
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Yeah, guys, give the man a little respect. Think about what he's got to do in his life - it's not all about you here. Nor is AVS *really* that important.

Think of it this way: You've been in a bar all night, playing drinking games. You wanna leave cos you wanna be able to walk once you get home. Everyone in the bar runs after you and grabs you saying, "ONE MORE!"


"guilt is the cause of more disauders
than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings
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Old 17th December 2002, 21:05   #26
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I just had a lousy day, and I decided to check in on the AVS forums.

What?!? NO AVS PACK VII!!!

Why don't we just say you're taking an extended break, that way we can still tell ourselves that you'll be back

--edit--:

I just saw in your original message, UC, your comment that you might be back in a few months. Please take the comment I made before the edit like "I second UnConeD's motion."

AVS Forum: Personally, I think that we could raise hell in the forums so that we get the wishlist ideas done.

EVERYONE!!! My thoughts are, if EVERYONE in the AVS forum posts complaints in the bitchlist/General forums...don't make them too specific about AVS...just mention the slowness of responding to certain aspects of programming...and post a link to this thread. If we do this, we stand a good chance of getting what UC says AVS needs. How can they possibly ban all of us? Maybe they can, but that'll just make an even bigger deal out of it. Guys: If any of you know how much I worry about stuff like being banned, you'll realize how important this is! Do it, and do it fast. Also mention that if they ban us, they are essentially cutting off a limb of their own body for each one of us they ban.

--end of edit--\


THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!

Don't listen to those jerks. They are just jealous because they're not that good!

I'm a DJ. You can DL my mixes free from my website: www.djcmount.com

You have the right to refrain from posting unless you write in the "rap battles" thread. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court by mods.
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Old 17th December 2002, 21:22   #27
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Here's another idea...make generalized complaints & put a very obvious link in your sig to this thread. Or do both, and let's hope that even if we get banned, that they will realize how serious of an issue this is.

I'm a DJ. You can DL my mixes free from my website: www.djcmount.com

You have the right to refrain from posting unless you write in the "rap battles" thread. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court by mods.
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Old 17th December 2002, 21:25   #28
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[ghost_from_starcraft]I'm all over it![/ghost_from_starcraft]


Speaking of StarCraft...I haven't played it in a while. Must reinstall and play...as soon as I finish up Orbytes, get some more music, etc...

*cranks Orbital - Bigpipe Style*
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Old 17th December 2002, 22:01   #29
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Total respect to you UnConeD, don't forget that youre welcome at #******* whenever, but if you do go..make sure you drop by and say hi
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Old 18th December 2002, 00:02   #30
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I think some people have misconceptions of me and what I can and cannot do.

I am a fan of all visualizations and that includes AVS I have noticed the decline of visualizations for some time and I am obviously not happy about.

The MilkDrop community equally disappointed with the development of MilkDrop nothing has happened for 5 months and so, so much more needs to be done. Most of the regulars have not touched it seriously for some item as no feedback, etc about it. Devolvement for MD as AVS seems to have stopped.

I have posted threads in the WA plugins forum/ bitchlist etc over the past year moaning from everything from the lack of WA” plug-in support on WA3 to the plugins/ AVS section on the website and everything in between. Not too metion posting backstage with suggestions.

I even sent Ryan Geiss an email asking/bitching about what was happening with MilkDrop mainly but also asking serious questions about why people where leaving the plug-in community (it happened there first folks and NONE of them want to code for winamp anymore ) and at least implied what is happening to AVS.

I was and still am an outspoken member of the community but sadly it falls on deaf ears it seems.

Sometimes I may be talking to wrong people but the motivation of others does not seem to be there. For example I tried many months ago to get a AVS reviewing team setup as I noticed that for months and months the AVS presets had not been reviewed. Initially I thought I was getting somewhere but nothing happened I did try again and eventually it suddenly happened.

I was hoping that someone at Nullsoft would notice AVS again as they had to set-up stuff for the website and interest would be awakened but alas…..nothing.

Realistically it may be that AVS (and MilkDrop maybe) is dated and it is better to start from the beginning (as we have discussed before 3d accelerated, etc) and create a new product of similar style (not slagging off AVS just looking at realistic options m’kay)

Also you must understand that none of the Nullsoft staff are even in contact with the Mods or anyone else on the forums. Steve from Nullsoft sometimes pops in and is classed as the ‘admin’ but his real job is other things with Nullsoft and in his ‘free’ time tries to look in.

Just because we are mods does not mean we know more we have no idea when the next beta version of Winamp is coming out, etc let alone AVS updates that seem to be a forgot memory or as UnConeD suggested an embarrassment to them.

I have tried many times and understand the unrest here but I sadly have no power (I would love have the plugin/avs/skin database fixed but no-one seems to care). I too get frustrated by nothing been done but I can only bang my head against a brick wall so many times.
I may at some point write a last ditch attempt to Justin Franklin to see if anything can be done are at least let us know the score on the current situation.

Members of the public like us with there visualization expertise help make winamp what is today (and indirectly made some at Nullsoft wealthy people) and now it has been forgot about. At least the skin people had new features for WA3.

People will not get banned for doing what cmountford suggests (I will all I can to stop them anyway)

So folks I hope you realise that I am on your side but I can do nothing

"Rules are for the guidance of wisemen and the obedience of fools"

Visuals - Morphyre www.Morphyre.com
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Old 18th December 2002, 00:10   #31
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If you've seen any of the 'Nullsoft at work' .NSVs, you'll know the reason why there aren't any updates. All they do is muck around all day and get paid heaps of money.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 3W | 4WW
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Old 18th December 2002, 07:16   #32
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Rovastar: it's actually pretty reassuring to hear from your mouth that even the moderators are confronted with the Nullsoft team living in their ivory tower. It shows exactly where the problem is.

The only option I see is detachment: leave wa.com and move elsewhere. DeviantArt is a good option with its new vis category, but it doesn't have good forums imo. I'm not a big fan of overgeneralisation DA-style anyway... it simply consists of several independent communities living next to eachother on the same site, and the only time they get into contact with eachother is when one bitches about the DD of another.
And it seems DA is suffering from SlashDot syndrome: every news article is plagued with 'first post!' comments and useless replies from people who haven't even read the article.

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Old 18th December 2002, 11:39   #33
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Quadrophenia

Mabey the people at Nullsoft, just love to party.

Mabey they made a really good program and it got really popular, they made something of them selves, and now they probalbly get paid to party. You know party in the office, those crazy larakens. Hey chicks dig AVS ! Mabey they're sick of coding thier old software and can smell that sweet smell of oportunity comming their way (in different fields bethatasitmay). And all the diehard fans of thier original product want'em to stay true. Mabey they'll say "f@*k it I've had 40 shots of tequila I'll do what the f@*k I want" get in to their new lexus and layoff some burnouts in the carpark ... and mabey they wont.

If they're not doing anything about it, its probably because there's nothing to do anything about. Surely we all disagree, but in the end people will do what ever the hell it is they want to do.

In all likleyness there's always something coming after winamp 3 either of the same name or otherwise. The question is will it have a decent editable visualisation program to go with it. I'm sure it will, people love Musical Visualisations. So how will it be? what will it look like?

Now AVS is f@*king great we all know that but eventually its going to be supersceeded by something else, So if you want to hang on long-term to something that will eventually disapear. Go and do Visualisations on a C64 and tell someone who cares. If you love to make Visualisations you need good tools and in this ViSworld the tools are always gonna change.

Mabey all this disscusion is just the death rattle of of AVS being phazed out... Mabey it's not.. Mabey people who are as good as the Nullsoft people should take advantage of a situation and develop it themselves .. is that possible? Are we all just sheep !!!

Stick it to em, push the envelope, fight for your right to .. party..


If Code were my thing I'd code code to a coder whilst hes coding code. But It aint.

Love from
VisualAgnosia
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Old 18th December 2002, 12:05   #34
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I don't think they are making so much money from a FREE product, that they can party all day long... Or maybe they are, i don't know, im not a marketing expert. Maybe they get so much advertising funds that they can bath on champagne and wipe their asses on hundred dollar bills

It's still hard to imagine that all they do is party away and drink all day long... though it would explain a lot of things

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Im retarded... err i mean retired!
Probably both...
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Old 19th December 2002, 03:37   #35
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i left for the same reasons, avs has become to restricting. Even tho i really haven't achieved your technicallity, i don't see any more ways to make presets.
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Old 19th December 2002, 13:31   #36
Montana
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are you "leaving" us? well that's a shame. can't say more that it's a shame just because it's a shame.

batman
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Old 19th December 2002, 16:58   #37
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Meh, I just muddle about with different function sequences and see what happens. I keep what I like and ditch what I don't, and keep what works in mind for other presets.

IMHO, all AVS really needs in the line of predefined constants is pi - that 3.1415325....(okay, so I can't remember much more than 3.1415 in pi, so sue me ) irrational nonterminating number that's the circumference of a circle divided by its diameter.

Of course, new render objects would be nice too, but...
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Old 19th December 2002, 17:30   #38
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Well, no offense, but you're not at the point where there's nothing else to do.

And pi can be calculated as acos(-1) or 2*acos(0) (I think), and e is exp(1)

"guilt is the cause of more disauders
than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings
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Old 20th December 2002, 13:15   #39
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There's a thread which has been started in General Discussions, please post there if you think you can contribute. It's basically about the current Winamp plugin situation - and we need everyone from both the AVS and MilkDrop forums to join together and see what we can do.

By having the discussion there it should be much more useful, given that GD is by far the most popular forum, and it should make our common problems with both plugins known to the wider Winamp community....

Please help out by posting there!
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Old 20th December 2002, 18:41   #40
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Well I broke from AVs for a while. i did have a new pack about to come out #13
how ever that pack went bye-bye whem i format C:eed it ^_^

I have been gone from it til i could understand more trig, however I'll be back. and I bet so will Unconed.

Needs more moo-cows.
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