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Old 14th May 2003, 07:34   #41
Jaheckelsafar
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oops, mixed up the concepts.

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Old 15th May 2003, 08:05   #42
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I'm loosing it... I understood the part that you always rotate along two axes. I know how to rotate along x-y (though I only know that with polar coords), but I don't know how to rotate along x-z and y-z.

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Old 15th May 2003, 09:42   #43
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read ateros primer.. its in his sig.

ATERO! post in this thread so they can find your sig!
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Old 15th May 2003, 15:58   #44
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i have. several times.

way to pay attention

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Old 15th May 2003, 16:41   #45
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just take the rotation matrix and apply it to other planes.

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Old 16th May 2003, 04:28   #46
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lol.. anyway. you wont get it unless you understand the basic trig of it. so read atero's primer. And visit ucd's thread called AVS FAQ or somehting, it has useful links..
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Old 17th May 2003, 15:29   #47
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ooooh... nice . I'm going to study this one for sure.

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Old 20th May 2003, 08:16   #48
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ok I watched it, and I got most of it, though this piece of code is not quite clear to me:

code:

x2=x1*sin(zt)-y1*cos(zt);
y2=x1*cos(zt)+y1*sin(zt);
x3=x2*sin(yt)-z1*cos(yt);
z2=x2*cos(yt)+z1*sin(yt);
y3=y2*sin(xt)-z2*cos(xt);
z3=y2*cos(xt)+z2*sin(xt);



I mean, I see it is neccesary, but I couldn't make it up my self. Could anybody please explain it a bit?

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Old 20th May 2003, 15:49   #49
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well it's all there in the primer, but it is admittedly crap and the next version - which will come out sometime this century - will be clearer. for now, just search the forums, there's a couple threads on this...
the long and short of it is, those are rotation matrices and you can find the formula for them anywhere. they involve a coordinate on two axes (e.g. x2/y2) and a rotation angle in the third (zt). the derivation of this matrix is quite a bit trickier, but i hope to get that into the tutorial as well.

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Old 21st May 2003, 10:33   #50
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/me bowes to Atero, your Primer is great

[edit]
Me is googling a lot for Rotation Matrices, and finding a lot as well, though does anybody know the Dutch word for Rotation Matrices? It would be a lot easier for me to understand if it was in Dutch. Thx.
[/edit]

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Old 21st May 2003, 19:10   #51
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ok I get the x2 and y2 part, somebody willing to explain z2, x3, y3 and z3?

and why is there an xt, yt and zt, and not just one var ( for example zt)? Does it matter a lot when you change it?

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Old 22nd May 2003, 06:25   #52
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Each new set of coordinates must have a different name otherwise the first line would modify a value needed in the second line of the rotation matrix. x3,y3, and z3 could just have easilt been x1,y1, and z1. It's just easier not to get mixed up if they are x3, y3, and z3.

xt, yt, and zt are how much the shape is rotated per axis. If they are all the same varible the shape would only ever rotate in one direction unless it was recalculated between each rotation matrix. It saves a lot of clock cycles to have a different variable for each and only calculate them once per frame.

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Old 22nd May 2003, 15:09   #53
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why are they all different? can't it be 3 times the same code line? I assume they all do the same operations, so why make it look difficult?

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Old 22nd May 2003, 16:14   #54
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They do all do the same operation, but they do it with different values.

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Old 22nd May 2003, 20:00   #55
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Also, it makes it much easier to understand and tweak the code that way. You could theoretically save a bunch of variables like this:
a=x; x=x*sin(zt)-y*cos(zt); y=a*cos(zt)+y*sin(zt);
a=x; x=x*sin(yt)-z*cos(yt); z=a*cos(yt)+z*sin(yt);
a=y; y=y*sin(xt)-z*cos(xt); z=a*cos(xt)+z*sin(xt);
but it's rather confusing and hard to tweak or fix. Also, say (hypothetically) you wanted to rotate an object by two different angles upon the X-axis. You couldn't do that with this setup, however if you were to take the original:
x2=x1*sin(zt)-y1*cos(zt); y2=x1*cos(zt)+y1*sin(zt);
x3=x2*sin(yt)-z1*cos(yt); z2=x2*cos(yt)+z1*sin(yt);
y3a=y2*sin(xta)-z2*cos(xta); z3a=y2*cos(xta)+z2*sin(xta);
y3b=y2*sin(xtb)-z2*cos(xtb); z3b=y2*cos(xtb)+z2*sin(xtb);
y3/z3a and y3/z3b would be the same object but rotated in different ways. Dunno what use this particular trick would be, but it sort of goes to show what you can do with this system....

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Old 25th May 2003, 20:31   #56
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Ok, I'm definately a noob. I have very little previous programming knowledge, and I know very little about AVS. (Wow pretty colors, and, oh look this setting changes things) However I'm determined to figure out and learn how to make my own AVS. So where can I find all the info I need to get started? I think that would be the best tip of all.
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Old 26th May 2003, 00:45   #57
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Take a look at this

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Old 26th May 2003, 03:32   #58
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haha.. shit raz, you fooled me with that one
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Old 26th May 2003, 16:06   #59
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lol @ raz.

Ok I think I understand the code from the Primer, now what's next in learning scopes?

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Old 27th May 2003, 00:26   #60
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Well there is always the FAQ....

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than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings
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Old 27th May 2003, 00:28   #61
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hmm... well, if you understand the concepts of the scope, the next thing you need is an idea for a preset.
Once you have your idea, think about the ways to go about it in your head, and then wreak havok on your machine.

its a good idea to save text files or presets that have the basic structure for things that you dont need to recode every time you use them, eg. your 3d Engine for scopes, variouse DMs, a synched 3d DM and SSC, the RGB2HSL code and whatever else you use often.
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Old 27th May 2003, 14:27   #62
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k

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Old 28th May 2003, 16:34   #63
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OK

... Duhh... Sorry but i only understood like the first couple posts... I took two superscopes and glued em together and added color and i think it looks cool but not ... ya know, good.
Clear every frame to see the superscopes only.

Oh yeah, I'm assuming everyone has the color map APE.
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Old 29th May 2003, 01:52   #64
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Two words to WH Code Red: Do More. Using an effect list, more effects, and your code will make better presets.

A little off the subject, but where do you find color map files? I can only use the black and white one.

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Old 29th May 2003, 02:56   #65
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there are no color map files that come with color map.

You have to create new maps using the color-slider bar and then save them if you wish.

The save/load option is just for construction purposes. So that you dont have to make the same map more than once if you need it more than once. You dont need to get the colormap files to view a preset that has used it.
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Old 30th May 2003, 07:55   #66
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Also to WH Code Red, pretty nice for a first scope. One tip, you could make 'em look a lot nicer when they move more, for example rotation. Figure out the coding for it yourself first, if that doesn't work, just reply here

EDIT:

Your shape changing scope will never work, cause you made the vars xr, and yr, and those don't exist

code for on beat: (just an example)

n=10; rx1=getosc(0,0,0); ry1=getosc(0,0,0);

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Old 1st June 2003, 09:49   #67
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the easiest way (though not the best) is to close in the scopes a little to the center, and then add a dynamic movement:

code:


for pixel:

d=d*0.75;
r=r+rt;

for per frame:

rt=rt+rts;

for on beat:

rts=getosc(0,0,0)*0.15


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Old 1st June 2003, 20:20   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deamon
... you made the vars xr, and yr, and those don't exist
...They do if you want them to....

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than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings
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Old 3rd June 2003, 21:08   #69
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?

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Old 4th June 2003, 02:20   #70
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"Just wish for it... deep inside, you must burn for those things.. then, and only then, will they truely come to be."
-- Sean Connery on AVS variables
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Old 4th June 2003, 09:41   #71
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lol. Now that was good, now let's cut the crap again and start posting some tips & tricks again

Nice movement: (works nice on a single SSC line or just the render/simple)

code:

d=d+sin(r*30)/50;
r=r+sin(d*5)/50;



changing the numbers will really change the effect, try it out a bit.

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Old 4th June 2003, 15:45   #72
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done and discussed that one already.

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than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings
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Old 7th June 2003, 04:17   #73
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A very useful tip

Atero showed me a great tip for making ssc more Dynamic than using the rand() function. He told me to the 'getosc( , , )' function. That way the ssc moves to the beat, almost completely randomized, and that scope now has sychronized movement with another scope that contains the same 'getosc( , ,)'. It's a usefull tip, it made my Presets more interesting than just things rotating in the same patteren.

This is the preset that Atero showed me how to make it more Dynamic, you can probably guess wich one has the 'getosc( , , )'
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Old 7th June 2003, 08:20   #74
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I already knew that . It indeed is a good tip, for the randomness is taken from the osciloscope data, it indeed looks fairly random, and it's great to synchronise multiple scopes or DM's.

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Old 8th June 2003, 21:19   #75
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Thanks to everyone who helped me understand 3D scoping, I owe you guys
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Old 9th June 2003, 08:42   #76
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I got another question (oh boy, here we go again ). What exactly is Point to Point scoping, and how does it work?

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Old 9th June 2003, 18:03   #77
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It's when you do a scope point by point or group of points by group of points.

There are 3 ways to do it, but for the sake of the community, let's use the more practical (and most compatible) one.

FRAME : p=0
POINT : p=p+1

This numbers the points such that the first point has the value of 1, the second 2, and so on.
How to use it?
x=if(equal(p,n),blah,blah1)
n is the pointnumber, blah can be anything, blah1 can also be anything - most likely to be a nested IF though.
And yes, I did say groups of points - use above/below/bor/band with it.
This way, making a wireframe is much less of a pain in the ass... But of course, it doesn't end there.
Presets with point-to-point-ing (and group-by-group-ing) :

Atero : Hypercube/Supercube (And presets that use the hypercube...), Cubism (Artist-like)**, Brownie*
UnConeD : Whacko IV Intro*, Anemone, Circuit City, Neon Coaster*
Nic01 : Your Typical Oscilloscope**, Dot Warpin'**, Randomly Walking*, Intro Pack 6*
fsk : Magnarings*

*i-based instead of p. Read on...
**Group-by-group, not quite p, but yeah, it's p. Tell me if you want more explanation...

Now, if you want to save a variable, you can use the i technique. Probably faster (can someone try?), but a little harder.
For this one, you directly use the i-value for the assigning. This makes this technique more suitable for n-numbers that can divide easily into 1... No, wait, n-1.
Why? Point #1 is counted as 0 in i, not 1/n. So for a 5-point SSC, you can easily use if(equal(i,0/0.25/0.5/0.75/1),blah,blah) - increments of 1/4, not 1/5. If you use increments of 1/5, it won't work...

Happy point-to-point-ing...

[soon to leave, sirs]
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Old 9th June 2003, 18:47   #78
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Umm...as far as I can tell all of the ones you marked with asterisks are not point-by-point. And a much more practical way to do point-by-point scoping, since (once again, according to UnConeD) if(a,b,c) calculates b and c regardless of a, is this:
x=p1x*equal(p,1)+p2x*equal(p,2)...
It's a much better alternative, if simply for ease of reading and fixing.

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Old 9th June 2003, 21:15   #79
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Ok, I'm going to give it a shot, now let's see how it works out . So if I'm right, you can draw pretty complicated figures with only one scope? Sweet...

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Old 9th June 2003, 21:25   #80
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ok first question. The scopes first point always starts at coords (0,0,0) ?

[edit]
I think I see the solution: am I right when I say that N has to be equal to the number of P you use, or else he draws a line from (0,0,0) to the last point assigned by p?
[/edit]

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