Old 12th June 2020, 17:21   #1
Kreeep
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Matrix Mixer plugin settings

Hi,

First post here. Long time user. Probably close to 20 years now :P

I have multiple surround sound setups at home and for whatever reason, upmixing stereo with speaker fill doesn't really work. I discovered the Matrix Mixer plugin and it works a treat. However, being a noob, I was wondering whether it's easy to set it up so the back channels play the exact same audio as the front channels, rather than splitting the audio into a virtual 5.1 mix.

I had also discovered the VL Sound plugin, which does do what I want by default, but for whatever reason it causes some distortion with one of my setups and also is not compatible with playing tracks that are already 5.1 to begin with, unlike Matrix Mixer, which does.

Thanks for any help
Kreeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2020, 21:35   #2
Aminifu
Forum King
 
Aminifu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,724
Simple:
Select the Mixer panel and make notes of all the settings on this panel (in case you want to return to them). Make sure the options; auto gain control, auto matrix, and bass redirection are disabled. Enter the values from your notes that were (or are) in the L, C and R columns of the mixing matrix for the L' row in the L' and SL' rows. Enter the values from your notes that were (or are) in the L, C and R columns of the mixing matrix for the R' row in the R' and SR' rows. This causes the rear 2 channels to receive the same audio output as the front 2 channels.

How It Works:
Each column in the mixing matrix represents an input channel from the source file. Each row in the mixing matrix represents an output channel for your audio device. The values in each box that intersects a column and row control how much of an input channel's volume is directed to an output channel. 0 = 0%, 1.0 = 100% and 0.7071 = 50%.

I'll leave it up to you to determine what values equal 25%, 75%, 125% and any other volume percentage you may want to use. I suggest you use no more than 125% to prevent distortion (100% or less for some songs and/or setups).

Tips:
Some stereo songs (based on how they were engineered; stereo, joint stereo, dual stereo) have mostly different sound in each channel or mostly the same sound with slight differences.

Negative values can be used to subtract the same sound used in both input channels from an output channel. For example using 1.0 (or -1.0) for the L column and -1.0 (or 1.0) for the R column for the L' row will direct to the left front output channel only the sounds that are different in the left and right input channels.

Instead of using all of one input channel and none of the opposite input channel for an output channel, you can add or subtract some or all of each input channel for redirection to an output channel.

Winamp Pro v5.666.3516 fully-patched - Quinto Black CT v3.1 skin
Windows 10 Home 64-bit v2004 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system
Aminifu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2020, 06:56   #3
Kreeep
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Wow. Thanks man! I really appreciate the lengthy and detailed response Got it all set up now. I might consider lower the volume on the center and rear channels a little to give a little more of a genuine stereo sound. But yeah, thanks!

Any idea if there are plugins out there that support upmixing to 7.1? Got another setup out in the living room with a home theater system.
Kreeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2020, 20:29   #4
Aminifu
Forum King
 
Aminifu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,724
Sorry, I don't know of any working 2 to 7.1 channel upmixing plug-ins.

Matrix Mixer is based on the AC3Filter. If you want more of the technical details, visit this website (http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/ac3...eng.html#usage).

The matrix mixer output plug-in and the free version of the Stereo Tool DSP plug-in are my favorite Winamp (and now WACUP) plug-ins. They let me play at being a sound engineer and enhance my stereo files and/or create various virtual 5.1 soundscapes. The high and low band pass filters in Stereo Tool let me block the high and low frequencies in my source files that my speakers (including the subwoofer) can't reproduce. This helps eliminate or reduce distortion.

Have fun trying various values in the mixing matrix. In my previous post I referred to input channel volume. I should have said input channel content. Just use the mixing matrix to move stuff from input channels to output channels. Use the Gains panel to adjust individual channel volumes (up or down).

I've found that making subtle changes with a DSP plug-in can result in drastic changes (good and bad) in the sound. Of course, this depends on the quality of the source files. A DSP (or equalizer) plug-in can't add anything that is not already present in the source file.

Winamp Pro v5.666.3516 fully-patched - Quinto Black CT v3.1 skin
Windows 10 Home 64-bit v2004 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system

Last edited by Aminifu; 13th June 2020 at 21:33.
Aminifu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2020, 04:56   #5
Kreeep
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Sorry about the delayed response.

AC3 is limited to 6 channels, I presume. That's fine. Definitely a nice step up from stereo.

I attempted to try out Stereo Tool DSP but struggled to work out how to use it correctly :P Currently, I use FxSound Enhancer as an overall DSP for Windows. I know a lot of people would think it's blasphemy. Mind you, many people would think upmixing stereo is blasphemy too. I'm pretty happy with how things sound though.

Unfortunately, setting Matrix Mixer from anything other than auto matrix does mean that if I play a 5.1 audio file through it, it won't be recognised as true 5.1. Because of this, I've set Matrix Mixer back to default, with auto matrix on. It makes life easier for me, so I don't have to fiddle with anything when the occasional 5.1 track plays.

Ha, oh yes. I make sure the my source files are of an adequate quality.

Thanks for your detailed replies and info. Really appreciate it
Kreeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2020, 19:05   #6
Aminifu
Forum King
 
Aminifu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,724
Yes, AC3 is limited to 6 channels. It would have been nice if it's developer had updated it to handle up to 8. I assume he has moved on to other things considering how much time has passed.

I'm not an audiophile (i.e. trying to have bit-perfect reproduction of source files). I like to adjust the sound and/or soundscape. I make things sound bad more than I make them better, but I still like to fiddle with stuff.

I also used FxSound Enhancer for awhile, before I discovered Stereo Tool. Stereo Tool is very complex. I still consider myself a novice after over 2 years. I use it's forum (https://forums.stereotool.com) to read about stuff and ask questions. There is a "Settings Repository" section where users explain and post settings they use to get various results. I'm fully retired now (little over a year), so I have the time to indulge in this hobby.

I keep my playlists of true 5.1 source files separate from playlists of stereo files. This lets me get through a playlist without having to pause to adjust Matrix Mixer and/or other things.

Anyway, enjoy your music! Unless you're having a party (i.e. trying to please others), it should sound the way you like it. Live long and prosper.

Winamp Pro v5.666.3516 fully-patched - Quinto Black CT v3.1 skin
Windows 10 Home 64-bit v2004 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system
Aminifu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2020, 16:36   #7
Kreeep
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Haha, you sound like myself. It's nice to see someone admit they're happy to tamper with sound, for better or worse.

Yes. When I have more time on my hands myself I may consider doing the same and fiddling around with Stereo Tool.

Good idea keeping 5.1 tracks separate from stereo. And yes. So long as I enjoy the sound, who cares about anybody else :P Thank you
Kreeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Winamp > Winamp Technical Support

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump