Old 11th June 2013, 17:02   #1
Aminifu
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Playlist Editor Improvements

I was recently discussing playlist editor improvements with Victhor. He has 2 ideas I think are pretty cool. What do you guys think (and feel free to add more ideas)?

First--
Add tabs. This would allow more than one playlist to be loaded at the same time. This could also allow for copying and/or moving tracks from one playlist to another much easier than what is currently possible.

The downside is this would increase the number of playlists that would have to be saved when exiting Winamp. This could be mitigated by limiting the number of tabs or only saving the playlist of the active tab (the user would have to manually save the listings in the other tabs before exiting or Winamp could automatically save the listings in inactive tabs when changes are detected instead of saving them during shutdown).

Second--
Collapsible listings. When listing multiple tracks from multiple albums, it would aid navigation through the playlist to be able to collapse each group of album tracks into a single line for each album.

Of course this would mostly benefit those who listen to their album tracks as a group, but it seems a large number of users do so. This would be especially good for albums designed to be played as a set piece or as a continuous concert type performance.

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Old 11th June 2013, 17:34   #2
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so basically like the Aimp playlist editor then ?

both are hefty changes to the playlist editor and have been brought up a number of times but we then start hitting how to do it without either breaking the plug-ins that expect certain behaviour or just for go that and break compatibility. plus there's how to visually show it as it'd need to be done in a way not to break existing skins / look jarring.

there's a load of things that can be done like columns, colouring (like i hacked in via jtfe but done via atf for example), but that then makes it more like how foobar2000's playlist editor became.
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Old 11th June 2013, 18:17   #3
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the first one seems doable tho, in that you can already "move" the playlist into the tabs where the ML, Visualizations, Video tabs, etc are, and then it would just be a matter of adding a second tab for a second playlist.

or better yet, you could retain one tab, and "split" the area into two playlists.

personally, I like smartviews better, but I could see this really being useful esp for DJs.

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BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 11th June 2013, 18:23   #4
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I'm not sure where Victhor's ideas stem from. I expect his input once he sees this thread.

I naively thought the tabs would not be a major deal since everything else (plug-ins wise) would only see the active tab as if it was the only one and therefore no change relating to it as they relate to the single playlist now.

As for the collapsible listings, I can see were that could be more involved. But I was thinking of it being more of a cosmetic thing on the surface. Behind the scenes the listing would still be treated as a list of separate tracks.

I look to the wisdom and insight of the Winamp development team to determine if either of these ideas are possible and practical to implement.

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Old 12th June 2013, 09:55   #5
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it really depends on how it's done as other than how to visually show them, what is treated as the one to be played from since the main playlist editor is what drives playback. so if that is constantly changing, it then impacts on things like the shuffle morphing and other internal aspects.

or if It's purely just a way to edit playlists without using the ml views as was sort of approximated via the playlists sidecar of the modern skin then maybe that'd be easier.

I might have to break out a Winamp3 install to see what that did for things since that was able to do it. but it really comes down to what others would expect with current vs viewed / edited playlists within the main playlist editor ui.

am not saying this isn't something not worth considering, is just a lot to consider and do in order to get it right (as I remember from my ill fated plex plug-in which attempted to do just this.


though I'd be more tempted to do more work on the ml_playlists plug-in so it can have playlists grouped as that comes up more often than tabbed playlists.
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Old 12th June 2013, 15:48   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
...

or if It's purely just a way to edit playlists without using the ml views as was sort of approximated via the playlists sidecar of the modern skin then maybe that'd be easier.
For me it would mostly be an aid for editing. I admit I didn't think about the impact of constantly changing tabs during playback. This is what I meant concerning deferring to the devs wisdom and insight.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "playlists sidecar". I need to look into that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
though I'd be more tempted to do more work on the ml_playlists plug-in so it can have playlists grouped as that comes up more often than tabbed playlists.
Thanks in advance if you do this. That would also aid navigation, similar to the collapsible album playlist idea.

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Old 14th June 2013, 21:12   #7
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Hello, sorry for the delay.

Ideas from Aimp? I thought PL Tabs came from somewhere else, but it wasn´t my idea, that´s for sure (actually, Winamp is older than Aimp, so in this forums someone would have thought this before even Aimp existed.. ).
And grouping songs I know now that IT IS actually from Aimp, which I don´t use, but I´m always looking its skins at Deviantart and that´s what I thought when I saw this one.


Anyway, no offense but I can´t believe there is so much consideration about these ideas here, I know wishlist is always flooded with some sort of PL/ML improvement and it usually clash with the reality of the coding monster that winamp is... so, this is a surprise for me.. is Winamp 6 being cooked?

So, speaking doesn´t get the job done.. this is what I thought about implementations, I´m not a programmer but I believe that maybe an "out of the box" thinking can be helpful sometimes, let´s hope this is the case:

:: Tabbed playlist

One way I can think of implement it whitout breaking existing skins (or without needing a new engine..) may be like "embed" in the top of the PL, using the same container + a particular UI to handle a set of tabs.
So, in theory, skins will always "see" 1 playlist, but within that one we could have a lot of different "selections" (tabs). The counterpart of it -among other surely- would be to loose some flexibility from the ML (like "send to X Playlist" or "send this playlist to x tab"), since the engine will always be seeing 1.. (for me it wouldn´t be much of a lost, drag n´ drop should be enough).

Image should be clearer..
Click image for larger version

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:: Tracks group

Winamp 6.. haha. No, seriously, I can´t think of a safe way, I thought Chapterlist would throw some light on it, but it didn´t (I thought about how it writes an .xml file for each song in the PL, but it´s a totally different thing, besides it still lacks the graphic presentation..).

Actually "Playlist Separator" looks more like what we need, but then there´s the problem about how it "reads" the source of a dragged/added group/track..
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Old 16th June 2013, 21:47   #8
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* Read "embedded" where it says "embed"
(When will return the ability to edit posts-long-after-wrote? Why is gone to begin with?)
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Old 16th June 2013, 21:52   #9
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you can only edit posts up to a a few hours after the post was made (unless you're a mod / admin) as otherwise people could just keep going back and editing things to completely mess up what had previously been said which would break the flow and relevance of posts. this is how it has always been around here (as i have tried to previously explain to you).

as for the points in the prior post, the skin aspect is the simplest of the things to consider, it's that the main playlist editor is only for _one_ playlist and getting that to support other playlists (from a UI aspect it probably isn't too tricky) but internally it isn't a simple change i believe - and if that isn't done right, it completely breaks how the playlist editor already works.
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Old 16th June 2013, 22:09   #10
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Editing: I know the reasons, I thought it was present at some point, I´ll rememeber now. Editing is useful to non-fluid-english-speakers like me (I usually find I missed some word spelling / timing), but I guess the risk of having people un-saying its own words is too high (ergo, not worthy).

Playlist thing: I´m sure you´ve already think of it, but is there some -easy?- way to implement a PL overlay that handles the dragged files? (from what I know, that would be half the problem am I right? -being the other how it manages the data once it´s handled-)
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Old 19th June 2013, 02:07   #11
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Hi, guys! I really love Winamp, and I've been using it for the past ten years.

My suggestion for the playlist editor: could it have more sorting options? I know I can sort music by artist name or song title. But this week I needed to create a playlist with files sorted by the tag "year". Unfortunately, it seems like Winamp doesn't have this feature, so I needed to export my playlist to Windows Media Player, where there's the option "Sort by year of release".

Thanks in advance!
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Old 19th June 2013, 05:47   #12
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Hi CassioJ,

One way to do what you want is to use advanced title formatting (ATF) to make a playlist title string that puts the year first in the song title. Go to General Preferences - Titles and use something like "%year% * %artist% - %title%". Then you can sort the playlist by title and have the year decide position. I do this, but I use BPM instead of year.

Another way is to sort your songs in the Media Library track view by year and select your playlist songs from there. You can add year to the columns listed by right clicking on any of the existing column headings and selecting the "Customize columns..." command.

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Old 19th June 2013, 09:55   #13
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the sorting options are limited as they are from before the time of the media library and so only works against what is known to the playlist editor.

using library queries is the best way to do it and is all that would effectively be done if the playlist editor was made to support it (which I have thought about doing in some form but needs a bit of time to make changes to be able to do it).
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Old 21st June 2013, 05:26   #14
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Aminifu, thanks a lot for this tip. I didn't know it was possible.
It will work for me until we have an authomatic option do sort files (I hope we'll have in next version, ha ha).
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Old 21st June 2013, 06:15   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CassioJ View Post
Aminifu, thanks a lot for this tip. I didn't know it was possible.
Winamp is sooo customizable! I've been using it for 15 years and still finding stuff I didn't know about. And I'm not just talking about the new features.

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Old 14th September 2013, 01:05   #16
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@DrO: Is it "possible" (meaning: being the result as much good as the amount of effort coder puts in) to add an option to PL so user can control space between items? Like the one for ML Tree ("Tree item height") but for PL.

I think that way PL would look a bit less "ugly" and bit more clearer (not so "code like").
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Old 14th September 2013, 01:15   #17
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it could be done but i don't see any benefit to doing it (i.e. i'm not going to do anything) since you can just change the font (or even the size of the font in use) which also can alter the space left around the entries to get a different 'fresher' look as it's just otherwise wasting space on the screen when it's not appropriate imho.
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Old 14th September 2013, 05:59   #18
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Yes, it can be somehow achieved through font, but it´s not the same, user must find a font with the proper spacing (top space larger than usual? Not too many has it) and readable at the same time (my winamp doesn´t go well with most fonts actually).

You´re right about losing space though (for other songs), but think you can gain a lot of readability (design concept), items could be more easily spotted, thus making the PL more useful. It´s just an idea I´m throwing in, maybe it lights up some enthusiasm if others can visualize it.
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Old 26th November 2018, 08:39   #19
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I like my playlisting setup





I find the Audio tab separated this way into panes/windows the most efficient (for my music). Not really much needs changed. What I'm trying to show with the two images is that I click an artist in the left list, the right window shows albums with artwork and info, the window below lists artists discography. Click an album in the right window and it lists only that album, and when played from that list the playlist window on the far right automatically generates that album (same for clicking from the full artists discography list)
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Old 27th November 2018, 13:14   #20
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I personally like smart views but that is different from scripted playlists. DJs would benefit from a dedicated tab like ML or Video have, separate from the "scratch" playlist that is always dynamically changing as choices are made.

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--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 27th November 2018, 17:10   #21
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Smart views are better
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