BUG? no gapless FLAC / ALAC playback in winamp?

[MrSinatra]

my understanding is that both FLAC and ALAC support gapless playback, (which LAME does too).

winamp plays my newer LAME files back with gapless playback fine.

however, I just noticed it does NOT do so (using the newest beta) with my FLAC files.

they were made by me with EAC and FLAC 1.2.1

I tested with RG set to album RG.

(I should clarify that gapless works on LAME files made with newer LAME vers, some older LAME rips have the hesitation in them, similar to what I can also hear/see in the FLACs)

a quick look on google suggests that it may be the fault of the playback software/device.

thoughts?

[DJ Egg]

I just converted a gapless mix mp3 album to FLAC with Winamp 5.7 Beta 3376, using enc_flac w/ FLAC 1.3
and the resulting FLAC album still played back gaplessly.

Maybe the problem is with EAC? (sorry, I don't use it)


As for ALAC... the mp4 container depends on there being an iTunes gapless atom...
Again, maybe an EAC issue?

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by DJ Egg

I just converted a gapless mix mp3 album to FLAC with Winamp 5.7 Beta 3376, using enc_flac w/ FLAC 1.3
and the resulting FLAC album still played back gaplessly.

Maybe the problem is with EAC? (sorry, I don't use it)

hmm, well, EAC can rip to mp3 with newer LAMEs and do so gaplessly. I would be shocked if it really could not rip to FLAC gaplessly, but I can't say for sure it does/doesn't.

my FLACs were made with FLAC 1.2.1 and EAC; can u try ripping with winamp 5.63 and see if it plays those FLACs gaplessly? (as they should be 1.2.1 types)

I was testing the second side of abbey road btw.

Originally Posted by DJ Egg

As for ALAC... the mp4 container depends on there being an iTunes gapless atom...
Again, maybe an EAC issue?

I haven't yet fully tested this, i'll get back to you on it. thx for the info!

[siavash119]

In EAC Make sure you have checked Action > Append gaps on previous track (standard practice) and done Action > detect gaps before ripping.

I don't know if the above solves your problem, but I have had no problems with gapless playback for both my rips and others'.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by siavash119

In EAC Make sure you have checked Action > Append gaps on previous track (standard practice) and done Action > detect gaps before ripping.

I don't know if the above solves your problem, but I have had no problems with gapless playback for both my rips and others'.

thanks... i'm beginning to think its something either I, or EAC did wrong.

I found a thread about compression offset re: the drive, (and using cuetools to fix) and also a mention of prefs > EAC options > extraction and the first checkbox, "Fill up missing samples with silence"

should that be checked or not? do you know the default setting for it?

i'm thinking that might be my culprit. (I am still interested for someone to test 5.63 though, just to rule it out)

I would just rerip/test myself, but I don't have the CDs here, (they're at my house, not my apt)

PS. I found these links mentioning ALAC/mp4/m4a gapless:

http://code.google.com/p/mp4v2/wiki/iTunesMetadata

http://atomicparsley.sourceforge.net/mpeg-4files.html

so when I actually setup EAC to rip to ALAC, i'll need to configure mp3tag to find the %pgap% atom and make sure its all kosher.

[lostinsound]

The FLACs I've ripped with EAC all seem to be playing fine with gapless playback on the latest beta.

I do have the "Fill up missing samples with silence" option checked although I'm not sure what the default was.

[MrSinatra]

damn. the Beatle FLACs I made were back in 09 or 10 and I have no idea what settings I had EAC set to then, or what exactly is wrong with the FLACs I made, since it seems to be my files and not winamp.

[Batter Pudding]

I've left EAC basically on defaults. Not tweaked much. That seems to be playing back my FLACs without gaps in Winamp Beta as normal.

I'll go re-rip Dark Side Of The Moon and see what happens. Will also test rip via Winamp. Back Soon...

[Batter Pudding]

Not a hiccup. Perfect gapless playback from an EAC rip in Winamp Beta 5.7. Ripped an SACD of DSOM using EAC to FLAC (using CMP button). Winamp is playing this back flawlessly.

I have specifically gone to the end of a few tracks and started playing from there to see how it picks up the next track. All perfect.

Must be something in your settings for EAC. A tweak too far? EAC is generally set on defaults for me without any real changes. I notice that EAC has an option to Save Profile. If this will save all the relevant settings I can upload my current profile for comparison.

[MrSinatra]

thx for the testing and all the replies from everyone.

BP, was EAC using FLAC 1.2.1? was the fill missing samples with silence checked by default?

yeah, I am thinking its something I or EAC did wrong. it would seem whatever is going on is not a winamp issue. I have read other threads which suggest I might have some silence appended into the end of my tracks, and that cuetools might be able to fix them properly, but I don't use cue tools and i'm def in new terroritory now.

yes, the profiles are very cool. their main use is to allow a user to have differing settings for differing codecs. I suggested winamp could do profiles, and DrO said it was a bad idea, so bad, I convinced him not to do it (just by suggesting it apparently). having used profiles in EAC, I think otherwise.

[Batter Pudding]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

BP, was EAC using FLAC 1.2.1? was the fill missing samples with silence checked by default?

How do I check for the answers of this? Which menus?

I only picked up on the profiles as a suggestion for you to be able to compare to my setup. For now I just need the one profile as I only rip to FLAC as this is what all of my digital devices play back.

[MrSinatra]

you could look at your FLACs to see what ver flac they encoded at, or look at what ver FLAC.exe you have eac pointing at.

the pref I mention is here:

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

and also a mention of prefs > EAC options > extraction and the first checkbox, "Fill up missing samples with silence"

profiles can also be useful for differing configs for the same codec. imagine one profile to rip things to one location, and another profile to rip things somewhere else. or one for folder art vs one for embedding. differing filename construction, bitrates, etc... its very flexible, any combo of prefs you want, as many profiles as you want.

[Batter Pudding]

Ripped with libFLAC 1.2.1 and the "Fill up missing offset samples with silence" is ticked.


And yes, I am aware what profiles can be used for. But I do so little changing of things that nipping into a setting and changing it is enough for me. The audio side I leave well alone and am currently experimenting with if I want the art embedded or not. Generally I FLAC my tunes into one library. Most of my devices play back FLAC without troubles. And those rare situations I need some MP3s I'll let Winamp Pro buzz through the conversion with the Format Converter

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Ripped with libFLAC 1.2.1 and the "Fill up missing offset samples with silence" is ticked.

thx, and I have since figured out that should be ticked, and was at the time of my rips, so that's not it. it might be a drive offset issue, but idk. this is def a PITA issue. I might be stuck with bum FLACs until I can rerip, which sucks. it also delays my FLAC to ALAC project, for the Beatles anyway.

so now you have tried EAC, how do u like it for ripping FLACs? the way it gets art and does accuraterip alone are reason enough for me to use it over winamp (for rips). I also like the way you configure it, (outside of profiles btw), to rip one way for normal cds, another for comps.

[Batter Pudding]

Try loading your bad FLACs up in Audacity and see if you can see the gap at the end of them.

As to EAC - still trialling it in some ways. I like the fact it can stubbornly get round scratches on CDs. I have a very rotted Hendrix disk that it took 48 hours over and got a better result out of it that I can get when just listening to it.

Not too sure about the method of tagging. Prefer Winamp there. Always having to remember to fill in the album artist is a pain. The artwork search seems okay, but could be better. Had a couple of albums I've had to go back to the old web search on. Still not really sold on embedding art - so I think that is coming back out again. And already reported a bug to the developer as that art finder also locates bitmaps without telling you - until you then get a weird error message pop-up when the conversion to FLAC occurs as the FLAC tool needs JPEG not BITMAP. (And no, the "convert JPEG to BITMAP" flag in the options does not make any difference)


So - ripping good. Tagging and artwork - I am going back to Winamp as it is better implemented. Far more flexible and easier to check.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Try loading your bad FLACs up in Audacity and see if you can see the gap at the end of them.

I am very leery of manually editing my files, even to just remove silence at the end. but I might give it a go just to see if that is in fact the issue.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

As to EAC - still trialling it in some ways. I like the fact it can stubbornly get round scratches on CDs. I have a very rotted Hendrix disk that it took 48 hours over and got a better result out of it that I can get when just listening to it.

which disc?

it is good at data recovery. its also interesting that sometimes I get a result via secure rips, sometimes though "burst" works better on damaged discs. most of the time, I use fast b/c it stays sync'd and accuraterip confirms its ok anyway.

configuring the drive and testing the features is important. I think maybe I had something wrong with that when I made the beatle flacs.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Not too sure about the method of tagging. Prefer Winamp there. Always having to remember to fill in the album artist is a pain.

that's b/c freedb does not have AA info, its not the fault of EAC. EAC does allow you to pick which online resource to use, try the cuetools db with EAC instead.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

The artwork search seems okay, but could be better. Had a couple of albums I've had to go back to the old web search on.

you can redo search terms in the dialog. I find ~95% of art fine this way. (I am only looking for 500x500 to 600x600 generally tho).

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Still not really sold on embedding art - so I think that is coming back out again. And already reported a bug to the developer as that art finder also locates bitmaps without telling you - until you then get a weird error message pop-up when the conversion to FLAC occurs as the FLAC tool needs JPEG not BITMAP. (And no, the "convert JPEG to BITMAP" flag in the options does not make any difference)

i'm not sure I follow you... I never embed art, EAC places it in my folder. and it always saves it as a jpg in the folder I think. I can't recall specifically any jpg/png/bmp issues.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

So - ripping good. Tagging and artwork - I am going back to Winamp as it is better implemented. Far more flexible and easier to check.

I always go over tagging with winamp post rip. but winamp does NOT allow you to rip to comp configs, which EAC does. I think if you play with it more, whatever drawbacks u find can mostly be minimized.

[lostinsound]

I have EAC set to write the Album Artist tag during the rip by adding -T "ALBUM ARTIST=%albumartist%" to the 'Additional command-line options' under the compression options. That makes it so EAC writes the CD Artist (as shown at the top of the main window) to the Album Artist tag. This works even with using freedb. Or are you all referring to something else?

[MrSinatra]

I would not want freedb artist values written for albumartist tags, esp on comps.

eac calls it something like "album interpret" or whatever, but freedb doesn't fill in the CD Performer box which becomes that [meaning, AA tags] for me.

my point was the CD Performer box can be filled in by the cuetools DB (I think) and that in turn can be a proper AA tag for FLACs or mp3s.

[lostinsound]

freedb artist values do not get written to album artist tags with the way I have it set up. The option I added to the command-line was ALBUM ARTIST=%albumartist%, not %artist%.

If you look at the Filename tab under EAC options it says this:

%artist% - Track artist
%albumartist% - CD artist

So CD artist is the album artist, and that's what gets written to the Album Artist tag if you change the command-line options like I have in my previous post. The track artist is what's shown next to each track in the track list and that's what gets written to the Artist tag. The CD artist and the Track artist are two separate things.

And as far as compilations go, when I put in a compilation the CD artist gets set to Various by freedb, which also makes me think it's equivalent to Album Artist.

[MrSinatra]

I don't want to write a long winded reply, but I think you are confusing terms mainly b/c EAC has confused terms.

open the latest EAC. look at the top. it has three boxes stacked vertically:

1. CD title
2. CD artist
3. CD performer

ur posts seem to imply that "CD Artist" and "Album Artist" are one and the same, and that would be intuitive, but to EAC, this is not true.

CD artist actually = track artist in practice

while

CD Performer actually = album artist, aka %albuminterpret% in practice

that's how EAC is set up, and EAC with freedb never fills in CD Performer values. I have to. otherwise its blank.

you know that "2" aka "CD artist" refers to track artists b/c of the way EAC behaves in practice. put a comp in and then edit the top of the app field to see what I mean, (meaning, don't edit the actual track rows).

I know this is confusing but that's what EAC does afaict. and the confusion is not lifted when you go into eac > metadata options > export where a chart breaks down the %whatever% mapping.

EAC does seem to contradict itself and use terms I have not seen used elsewhere.

it also impacts folder and filename construction. do you have yours set to make them one way for normal CDs, and another for comps?

[lostinsound]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

I don't want to write a long winded reply, but I think you are confusing terms mainly b/c EAC has confused terms.

open the latest EAC. look at the top. it has three boxes stacked vertically:

1. CD title
2. CD artist
3. CD performer

ur posts seem to imply that "CD Artist" and "Album Artist" are one and the same, and that would be intuitive, but to EAC, this is not true.

CD artist actually = track artist in practice

while

CD Performer actually = album artist, aka %albuminterpret% in practice

that's how EAC is set up, and EAC with freedb never fills in CD Performer values. I have to. otherwise its blank.

you know that "2" aka "CD artist" refers to track artists b/c of the way EAC behaves in practice. put a comp in and then edit the top of the app field to see what I mean, (meaning, don't edit the actual track rows).

I put a compilation in and EAC takes freedb's metadata and sets CD Artist=Various Artists and makes the Track Artist different for each track in the track list. When I change the CD Artist to something else (say Compilation), nothing happens to all the individual Track Artists. This tells me that CD Artist is the same as Album Artist.

Now having said that, yes if CD Artist happens to be the same as the individual Track Artists, editing CD Artist does change the Track Artists as well, but I think this is just something EAC does for convenience. So that if album artist is the same as all the Track Artists, you don't have to change them all individually when editing them. But otherwise, CD Artist and Track Artist are not linked at all.

The fact is that in the EAC Options it shows the mapping

%albumartist% - CD Artist

so whatever is shown in the CD Artist field in EAC is written to the tags using %albumartist%, not %artist%, which means they are two different things. Which is why I have -T "ALBUM ARTIST=%albumartist%" in my command-line options.

I was always under the impression that CD Performer was just an extra tag for things like classical music where the performer of each piece becomes important. I've been ripping CD's for quite a while now using EAC and I've never found it necessary to use CD Performer.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

it also impacts folder and filename construction. do you have yours set to make them one way for normal CDs, and another for comps?

I have the naming scheme the same for both because I prefer to only have track number and title in the filename. So mine is:

%albumartist%\%year% %albumtitle%\%tracknr2% %title%

[MrSinatra]

ok, I was hoping to not get pulled into the weeds on this, but it seems I am. partly b/c this is hard to explain and partly b/c I don't know every outcome of every detail of every setting. but i'll give it a shot as long as you're willing to listen with an open mind.

Originally Posted by lostinsound

I put a compilation in and EAC takes freedb's metadata and sets CD Artist=Various Artists and makes the Track Artist different for each track in the track list. When I change the CD Artist to something else (say Compilation), nothing happens to all the individual Track Artists. This tells me that CD Artist is the same as Album Artist.

lets look at the raw freedb data:

http://www.freedb.org/freedb/soundtrack/8e0a840a

notice, nowhere does it say "album artist"

what EAC does, is it pulls the first text before the slash of "DTITLE" and it uses that to fill in the box "CD Artist" in the EAC gui. it does that for either normal CDs or comps.

now, bear with me, i'll get to the mapping...

Originally Posted by lostinsound

Now having said that, yes if CD Artist happens to be the same as the individual Track Artists, editing CD Artist does change the Track Artists as well, but I think this is just something EAC does for convenience. So that if album artist is the same as all the Track Artists, you don't have to change them all individually when editing them. But otherwise, CD Artist and Track Artist are not linked at all.

but normal CDs matter, and that box affects track artist listings for normal CDs, so in practice, in a normal, default EAC setup, that box works track artists, or does NOTHING.

meaning, on comp CDs, when things are PROPERLY MAPPED as they are BY DEFAULT, it DOES NOT MATTER whats in that box.

what you did, was for flac you changed the mapping from its defaults via cmd line, to use "CD Artist" to mean %albumartist% aka ALBUMARTIST, but THAT IS NOT HOW EAC COMES OUT OF THE BOX.

out of the box, CD Performer is what EAC uses for that, which it maps to %albuminterpret% aka ALBUMARTIST. it does that for both FLAC and mp3!

do you see where I am coming from now?

look at BPs unaltered FLAC command line:

-6 -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%

NO WHERE do you see %albumartist% b/c that's the "CD Artist" which is IGNORED by EAC by default. you changed that, you remapped it to mean the AA tag. but that doesn't mean CD artist = albumartist the tag, it only means you changed EAC to mean that, but nothing more.

%albuminterpret% is what EAC uses by default to mean AA the tag, and that value is from CD Performer, and any guide for setting EAC up uses that for album artist the tag, since it works with FLAC and id3 by default, out of the box.

Originally Posted by lostinsound

The fact is that in the EAC Options it shows the mapping

%albumartist% - CD Artist

you have that meaning backwards... the "CD Artist" box, or value, is whats mapped TO %albumartist% which in turn you have mapped to the TAG FIELD named ALBUMARTIST in your command line.

but that's not what EAC does by default. it uses CD Performer, which maps to %albuminterpret% which then is mapped via command line to ALBUM ARTIST the tag (which can be either with or without the space, looks like without by default)

Originally Posted by lostinsound

so whatever is shown in the CD Artist field in EAC is written to the tags using %albumartist%, not %artist%, which means they are two different things. Which is why I have -T "ALBUM ARTIST=%albumartist%" in my command-line options.

right, but YOU did that! that's not how it comes out of the box.

you made a change and have deduced everything from AFTER your change. that's not the right way to figure things out.

what do you think CD Performer is for anyway?

this is how EAC is setup, but what BP and I were saying is that FreeDB does NOT fill in CD Performer, and ergo we have to do it, to get AA tags.

Originally Posted by lostinsound

I was always under the impression that CD Performer was just an extra tag for things like classical music where the performer of each piece becomes important. I've been ripping CD's for quite a while now using EAC and I've never found it necessary to use CD Performer.

that's b/c of the change you made. and perhaps you like it better the way you have it, but I would not like it that way, b/c I want to set AA tags myself, as FreeDB will frequently not fill it in the way I want, so a blank field is better to remind me.

Originally Posted by lostinsound

I have the naming scheme the same for both because I prefer to only have track number and title in the filename. So mine is:

%albumartist%\%year% %albumtitle%\%tracknr2% %title%

that's np, but I do it the way I do it, in case a file gets corrupt tags and/or misplaced. it also helps autotagger.

[MrSinatra]

from that same filename pref page u cited, here's my strings:

%albuminterpret%\%albumtitle%\%artist% - %tracknr2% - %title%

and for comps:

%albuminterpret%\%albumtitle%\%albumtitle% - %tracknr2% - %artist% - %title%

then in the tags, EAC will do the track artist for TPE1, and album artist, aka "CD Performer" for TPE2. (on comps, b/c of expected artist mismatches between tracks, the "CD Artist" box, meaning at the top of EAC, is properly ignored)

EDIT:

here's my FLAC command line

-8 -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%

I believe i'd have to add

-T "ALBUM ARTIST=%albuminterpret"

to get the EAC "CD Performer" value into the FLAC tag as an AA tag.

[Batter Pudding]

Quick reply due to lack of time this morning...

The OT Gapless issue
Editing files in Audacity - I was only meaning as a test. Load some tracks up and see if you can see the dead space.

The extended EAC discussion
My bad CD - title doesn't really matter, it is mainly the fact this is one of the earliest manufactured CDs. Making it a good 25 years old now. When they still pressed them so the aluminium was exposed at the edges. I have a few of them, but this was Jimmy Hendrix's Smash Hits. Very very yellow. CD rot clear to see as there are big holes in the aluminium in places. As well as being generally well scratched. Playing it back normally, even a good CD player jumps and skips with it. I chose the disk as a evil test disk really - so was surprised as to what it produced.

If anyone is curious as to what really bad CD rot can look like, I'll take a photo and upload it later.

Note: I rip using Pioneer DVD drives. Fascinating to see all the extra features ticked when compared with a standard "home" PC or laptop. When I set EAC up for a client on a laptop, Accuraterip was not available due to the cheapness of the drive.

Disk art - yes I am aware that I can re-edit the title. Just like with Winamp. Still have beaten it a few times on the art search.

Bitmaps in artwork - you may not yet have come across it, but among the images offered for Hendrix's Smash Hits there are bitmaps mixed in with the jpegs. Yet you don't realise this from the dialog. If one is selected, then EAC will save a JPG copy to the hard disk for you, but passes the original Bitmap along to the FLAC converter in error.

The error shows itself as the FLAC command line. It doesn't give a descriptive error, just keeps failing to convert to FLAC. It is only because I noticed one of the flags (or was it the error code) mentioned BITMAP did I realise what was going on. Have already contacted the developer over this.

I guess you don't see this as you have a custom FLAC command line.

Note - EAC embeds artwork by default. As well as copying the image to the hard disk as a JPG it embeds it in the FLAC.

I have left everything at defaults initially. But now seeing that the embedded FLAC art is not displayed by either Windows or my phone I am likely to revert to no artwork in the tracks again. The mathematician in me keeps telling me how much disk space is wasted. And as I always listen to whole albums, then art in the folder is my preferred way. (Yes, I know I can turn off embedded artwork)

And talking of Artwork, MrS you have put your FLAC command line into your post. And that is showing that it is embedding the artwork too.

Handy seeing the FLAC command line as I will now go and make sense of this (another day). Straight away I can see I want to get rid of the daft lyrics bits in mine.

I'll also get my head around the other discussion here about %albumartist% etc - but too much for this morning as I have clients needing me....

[MrSinatra]

I have since loaded the FLACs into audacity and I do see a small amount of silent deadspace at the end of the file. this is very annoying, but i'm not comfortable trying to manually fix it. I also don't know how flac gapless works... mp3s with lame put something in the lame header, and m4a uses the pgap atom, but what does flac do?

I also worry that the gapless info might not make the leap from flac to alac, which would mean I need to rerip anyway.

regarding my FLAC line, it has actually been a long time since I ripped anything to flac. in fact, the beatle cds might be my only flac rips, i'm not sure. but that command line won't be very "modified" from the default. I took whatever EAC had and made small changes.

I am regrettably coming to the conclusion that I should make txt notes of my settings / profiles in EAC, then delete them and EAC, and wipe it away, and start fresh, ripping to ALAC direct, as it just seems to be what I need to do, (assuming EAC + alac will do pgap). the problem is I also have flacs I downloaded, and so I will lose the gapless info on those unless some utility preserves the info in the conversion.

tell me though, what says to you my flacs have embedded art? I can assure you they don't. in EAC, in prefs > compression options > id3 tab, you can tell it to use the folder for art instead, which I do. this would seemingly apply to flacs and other formats as well, inspite of the tab name, since as I said, my flacs don't have embeds.

so I can't speak to bmps in embeds, but the conversion seems to happen reliably when using folders.

btw, I used Plextor drives, since EAC was built on them and they had a reputation for being the best. I also had luck with HP drives, and the word is that these earlier drives, (pre-dvd mostly) had stronger lasers. I know I did wonders with a stones bootleg disc that was nearly unplayable, just by copying it with an ext 4x HP I had.

[Batter Pudding]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

I have since loaded the FLACs into audacity and I do see a small amount of silent deadspace at the end of the file. this is very annoying, but i'm not comfortable trying to manually fix it. I also don't know how flac gapless works... mp3s with lame put something in the lame header, and m4a uses the pgap atom, but what does flac do?

I also worry that the gapless info might not make the leap from flac to alac, which would mean I need to rerip anyway.

The key is you have now confirmed that Winamp is playing the files correctly. Something is duff in your ripping adding gaps that should not be there.

As to how it is encoded and works, I haven't read a spec. But would have not expected any software to add "gaps" to the ends of tracks when it was not supposed to. I also can't see why there would be a flag or setting to say gapless or not. Surely the track is ripped as the track - exactly as it is on the CD. And then usually the player ads the gaps in between during playback? (I have had cheap MP3 players do this... really annoying for DSOM).

To me perfect rip would be an exact copy of the track as it was on the CD. And if the CD had space at the end, then it would put space into the FLAC in the same way. I'd expect the FLAC to be the exact same length as the CD track. We also have those odd examples like that Nirvana album where there is the hidden extra track which plays in after 14 minutes of silence...

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

regarding my FLAC line, it has actually been a long time since I ripped anything to flac. in fact, the beatle cds might be my only flac rips, i'm not sure. but that command line won't be very "modified" from the default. I took whatever EAC had and made small changes.

Here is my default FLAC command line as EAC set it up for me.

-6 -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

I am regrettably coming to the conclusion that I should make txt notes of my settings / profiles in EAC, then delete them and EAC, and wipe it away, and start fresh, ripping to ALAC direct, as it just seems to be what I need to do, (assuming EAC + alac will do pgap).

You are confusing me. I thought you said you ran multiple profiles. Don't you have notes as to what the differences are in those profiles? Personally this is why I don't mess with the default settings until I fully understand them. Especially as the default is giving pretty good results as it is.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

the problem is I also have flacs I downloaded, and so I will lose the gapless info on those unless some utility preserves the info in the conversion.

Downloaded FLACs should be fine and not affected by this. I assume the people ripping those would not have made the same accidental error that you have. Something has accidentally got set in your EAC. Would be unlucky if the downloaded FLACs have that same flag set.

As to ALAC - sorry, you'll never get me wanting to support an Apple "standard". Even if they have finally revealed the spec of it. (That is a discussion for another thread)

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

Tell me though, what says to you my flacs have embedded art? I can assure you they don't. in EAC, in prefs > compression options > id3 tab, you can tell it to use the folder for art instead, which I do. this would seemingly apply to flacs and other formats as well, inspite of the tab name, since as I said, my flacs don't have embeds.

When I read your command line I compared to mine. And saw we both have %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% included. I then loaded one of my RAC ripped FLACs up in MP3TAG and confirmed that the image is embedded. As is the command line for the external compression tool it will include the instruction for adding the artwork.

Do a quick test yourself. Sling in any old CD and rip it. Making sure you select some artwork along the way. The load that track up in MP3TAG and you will see that artwork is embedded.

Personally I would have expected the flag you mention in the preferences to remove the above arguments from the command line... but not had time to investigate yet.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

so I can't speak to bmps in embeds, but the conversion seems to happen reliably when using folders.

This is clearly a very very rare issue as there have been no updates to EAC for ages, yet the developer responded quite quickly to me when I reported the issue. This is purely to do with the way the image is handed to the external compression tool of FLAC.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

btw, I used Plextor drives, since EAC was built on them and they had a reputation for being the best. I also had luck with HP drives, and the word is that these earlier drives, (pre-dvd mostly) had stronger lasers. I know I did wonders with a stones bootleg disc that was nearly unplayable, just by copying it with an ext 4x HP I had.

Plextor is certainly a brand name of note. I remember when they used to make the best CD players around. I have stuck with Pioneer based on the results I have had over the years. And the fact that they helped invent DVD. No idea what that HP drive is - I would not be surprised if it was a rebadged Plextor.

Older kit will always be made to a better spec that newer stuff. We now have any old Chinese factory knocking out basic players as most people would never use the features we are making use of here.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

The key is you have now confirmed that Winamp is playing the files correctly. Something is duff in your ripping adding gaps that should not be there.

right. I felt that way already, but now its official.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

As to how it is encoded and works, I haven't read a spec. But would have not expected any software to add "gaps" to the ends of tracks when it was not supposed to.

actually "gapless-ness" is ttbomk, relatively new, for lossy. And I think LAME is the only mp3 encoder that supports it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gapless_playback

m4a uses the pgap atom, but i'm not sure if that's just the container or what, since normally lossless is inherently gapless. (meaning, pgap might only apply to lossy m4a, not lossless m4a?)

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

I also can't see why there would be a flag or setting to say gapless or not. Surely the track is ripped as the track - exactly as it is on the CD. And then usually the player ads the gaps in between during playback? (I have had cheap MP3 players do this... really annoying for DSOM).

right, I agree. I guess FLAC, based on that link, has no such "extra info" for the benefit of playback devices, the way lame/mp3 do.

but the player itself must support gapless-ness, even for FLACs.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Here is my default FLAC command line as EAC set it up for me.

-6 -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%

clearly, my FLAC profile (and command line) is old and out of date. but notice above how albumartist is done, it uses %albuminterpret% which in turn is the CD Performer box. I would add the space tho, since I believe that's how winamp writes it. (I always forget for sure tho?)

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

You are confusing me. I thought you said you ran multiple profiles. Don't you have notes as to what the differences are in those profiles? Personally this is why I don't mess with the default settings until I fully understand them. Especially as the default is giving pretty good results as it is.

don't I have notes? ha, no.

and I'm not surprised I am confusing you as I have confused myself. I have way to many old legacy profiles from differing machines or differing HD installs, etc... that's why i'm saying I need to start over fresh, for both lossy and lossless probably, and just delete all profiles I have now, and have only a lossless alac one, and a lossy mp3 one. and I need to test both to be sure they are making gapless rips.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Downloaded FLACs should be fine and not affected by this. I assume the people ripping those would not have made the same accidental error that you have. Something has accidentally got set in your EAC. Would be unlucky if the downloaded FLACs have that same flag set.

I know, that's not what I was saying. I was saying I don't know if the flacs remain gapless, if they are gapless already, when converted to alac m4a? and further, if they even need pgap atoms at all?

however, it does seem that flacs are just "naturally" imbued with gapless-ness, and have nothing info-wise to convert on that score, other than the music itself, so I think you had it right there.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

As to ALAC - sorry, you'll never get me wanting to support an Apple "standard". Even if they have finally revealed the spec of it. (That is a discussion for another thread)

i'm no fan of apple, this is strictly for compatibilities sake. however, it is royalty free and open source now, (alac) not just revealed by spec.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

When I read your command line I compared to mine. And saw we both have %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% included. I then loaded one of my RAC ripped FLACs up in MP3TAG and confirmed that the image is embedded. As is the command line for the external compression tool it will include the instruction for adding the artwork.

Do a quick test yourself. Sling in any old CD and rip it. Making sure you select some artwork along the way. The load that track up in MP3TAG and you will see that artwork is embedded.

Personally I would have expected the flag you mention in the preferences to remove the above arguments from the command line... but not had time to investigate yet.

but as I already said, my flacs do NOT have art embedded. I have no cds here to test. but assuming my command line is the one used to make them, I think you see a command there that says "embed" while I don't. I think it only references the art, but the options I mentioned decide if it gets embedded or put into a folder.

its frustrating that I can't test, but what I am trying to say is that u can config EAC to put art in the folder, and not the files. I can't say for sure, 100%, that my command line will allow you to NOT have the file embed, but I think that is the case. I think options in eac prefs control that, not the command line alone.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

This is clearly a very very rare issue as there have been no updates to EAC for ages, yet the developer responded quite quickly to me when I reported the issue. This is purely to do with the way the image is handed to the external compression tool of FLAC.

andre is a good guy. I think EAC is just a hobby for him though. I am surprised no one else caught the bmp-to-jpg-embed-flac issue. did he confirm it for you?

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Plextor is certainly a brand name of note. I remember when they used to make the best CD players around. I have stuck with Pioneer based on the results I have had over the years. And the fact that they helped invent DVD. No idea what that HP drive is - I would not be surprised if it was a rebadged Plextor.

Older kit will always be made to a better spec that newer stuff. We now have any old Chinese factory knocking out basic players as most people would never use the features we are making use of here.

yeah, I think this is true with cd drives anyway. pioneer tho was a bit player on DVD, that was more a Philips thing. I was actually at the DVD debut trade show in LA in 95. I think it was E3 but I forget now. but the DVD demos were PACKED!

[Batter Pudding]

Note re:embedded artwork. Go into Compression Options and look at the ID3 Tag page. HOVER your mouse over the "Add cover image to ID3V2 tag" and read the pop-up. You will see there mention of the %hascover% and %coverfile% variables.

The way I read that implies that the command line will override that tick box. You need to delete the part of your command line I quoted in the above post.

I do laugh that the comment includes my standard criticism of embedded artwork... add a 1MB to 20 tracks and you eat up 20MB of file space.

[Batter Pudding]

To much to read and respond to every line. So quick summary...

I don't have the time now to read the Gapless docs... but here is how my brain has assumed it worked. Based on experience.

EAC rips to WAV. So that WAV is just pure musical data. An exact musical copy of the original. No "extra" information in there about the audio. This could be confirmed in Audacity if the WAV was uploaded. (Go into EAC options and untick the bit that deletes the WAVs when you do some testing next)

I then assumed the FLAC was a direct copy of this data mathematically compressed. I cannot see the logic of adding "gaps" to the end of that and you are then not getting an exact copy of the WAV.

I have always noticed that MP3 \ FLAC \ etc rippers often have the OPTION to ADD a gap as some people actually want gaps in their tracks when they are building their own CD compilations disks. In those cases I assume someone who wanted to mix some DSOM tracks in with other music would need to add a gap between the tracks. That is how I have always understood gap\gapless options.

I realise that is it the player that adds the gaps. Some rubbish CD players do too. Not everyone listens to concept albums so most people don't notice.

I again don't know about MP3 specs and gaps. But I have never had an MP3 ripper than adds gaps unless I go and tick options to make it add gaps. I have had numerous MP3 players over the years and they have all played DSOM correctly with gaps. Even when I used to just do rubbish rips. (I am pretty sure even Nero's ripper did it correctly).

I rip and don't fiddle. I want things as close to the original as possible. Once I heard how bad MP3 is on a decent HiFi, I swapped to FLAC. And that is all I personally need. Even if ALAC is now "open source" - I am not going to support Apple in trying to kill off a free open standard that was there before them. I'd rather stick with FLAC. I don't haev any devices that can play ALAC. And nor would I want them. Personal choice - I am happy with the kit I have.

(I keep leaving the %albumartist% stuff for another time. Don't have time to get into those details now.)


You have proved the point yourself why I don't mess with Profiles. And as I use OneNote on this PC I keep track of stuff I fiddle with so I can come back to it another day. Always working on dozens of projects here so I need to keep track of things. Especially for setting up new PCs.

Currently I am still in the "getting to know" phase of EAC. Though I get more fun out of listening to the music than messing with all the options of EAC. I just want a good rip.

Re: embedded art. I am ripping a CD here to see what that flag does and compare it with the arguments to the FLAC command line. As the FLAC tool is command line based external tool then I assume everything is in that one command. Other flags within EAC would be ignored. EAC would need to tweak that command line.

OK - can confirm the flag does correctly control the artwork. When it is unticked it does not embed artwork. (That help pop-up is confusing). That means that the %hascover% flag in the FLAC command line is the tick box for enabling\disabling artwork. Take the %hascover% flags away and leave the --picture command from the middle of them and it will embed the artwork no matter what the tick box is set to. Does that make sense to you? The options in EAC control the Command Line passed to the external FLAC compressor.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

To much to read and respond to every line. So quick summary...

I don't have the time now to read the Gapless docs... but here is how my brain has assumed it worked. Based on experience.

EAC rips to WAV. So that WAV is just pure musical data. An exact musical copy of the original. No "extra" information in there about the audio. This could be confirmed in Audacity if the WAV was uploaded. (Go into EAC options and untick the bit that deletes the WAVs when you do some testing next)

I then assumed the FLAC was a direct copy of this data mathematically compressed. I cannot see the logic of adding "gaps" to the end of that and you are then not getting an exact copy of the WAV.

I have always noticed that MP3 \ FLAC \ etc rippers often have the OPTION to ADD a gap as some people actually want gaps in their tracks when they are building their own CD compilations disks. In those cases I assume someone who wanted to mix some DSOM tracks in with other music would need to add a gap between the tracks. That is how I have always understood gap\gapless options.

I realise that is it the player that adds the gaps. Some rubbish CD players do too. Not everyone listens to concept albums so most people don't notice.

I again don't know about MP3 specs and gaps. But I have never had an MP3 ripper than adds gaps unless I go and tick options to make it add gaps. I have had numerous MP3 players over the years and they have all played DSOM correctly with gaps. Even when I used to just do rubbish rips. (I am pretty sure even Nero's ripper did it correctly).

I can not explain why my flac rips have the extra silence at the end. it is either something I did wrong, or eac did wrong tho, b/c clearly, it should not be there. I may never know why it happened, but at this point my best guess is it is a mistake in the hardware config settings of the drive, perhaps pertaining to offsets, and/or gap detection settings. the silence is about a tenth of a second, but this is enough to blow it.

anyway, as Aminifu said, its worth the time to be sure and test your EAC drive settings. as usual with all things audio, I learn the hardest way.

afaik, only LAME encoded mp3s around 3.96 or 3.97 properly include the info necessary in the LAME header for good apps and devices to play them back gapless.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

I rip and don't fiddle. I want things as close to the original as possible. Once I heard how bad MP3 is on a decent HiFi, I swapped to FLAC. And that is all I personally need. Even if ALAC is now "open source" - I am not going to support Apple in trying to kill off a free open standard that was there before them. I'd rather stick with FLAC. I don't haev any devices that can play ALAC. And nor would I want them. Personal choice - I am happy with the kit I have.

i'm not trying to convince you otherwise, i'm just explaining that I am doing it so all my stuff works natively with winamp and apple.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

(I keep leaving the %albumartist% stuff for another time. Don't have time to get into those details now.)

hopefully I've accurately portrayed the situation to LIS. I am going off my own exp's and your testimony, as I don't have the time to test it all out right now.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

You have proved the point yourself why I don't mess with Profiles. And as I use OneNote on this PC I keep track of stuff I fiddle with so I can come back to it another day. Always working on dozens of projects here so I need to keep track of things. Especially for setting up new PCs.

my sloppiness shouldn't besmirch profiles.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Currently I am still in the "getting to know" phase of EAC. Though I get more fun out of listening to the music than messing with all the options of EAC. I just want a good rip.

Re: embedded art. I am ripping a CD here to see what that flag does and compare it with the arguments to the FLAC command line. As the FLAC tool is command line based external tool then I assume everything is in that one command. Other flags within EAC would be ignored. EAC would need to tweak that command line.

OK - can confirm the flag does correctly control the artwork. When it is unticked it does not embed artwork. (That help pop-up is confusing). That means that the %hascover% flag in the FLAC command line is the tick box for enabling\disabling artwork. Take the %hascover% flags away and leave the --picture command from the middle of them and it will embed the artwork no matter what the tick box is set to. Does that make sense to you? The options in EAC control the Command Line passed to the external FLAC compressor.

sure it makes sense to me, that's what I've been saying! what bothers me about EAC though is that options which control formats OTHER than id3 are on that id3 tab! I consider that misleading and lazy, but c'est la vie. but anyway that has been my exp, there are lots of things EAC controls/passes outside of the things stated in the command line, not just art handling.

[Batter Pudding]

Okay - we are talking EAC. Here is a quick one. Playlists are created with each album. Perfect. Only trouble is these are *.m3u8 files. Have you seen an option anywhere to put an *m3u extension instead? Otherwise I keep having to rename these for my phone.

[lostinsound]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Okay - we are talking EAC. Here is a quick one. Playlists are created with each album. Perfect. Only trouble is these are *.m3u8 files. Have you seen an option anywhere to put an *m3u extension instead? Otherwise I keep having to rename these for my phone.

Unfortunately I can't access my computer with EAC on it right now, but I thought I remember there was some option for that in the Tools tab of EAC Options. I may be thinking of an older version of EAC but I'm not sure.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by lostinsound

Unfortunately I can't access my computer with EAC on it right now, but I thought I remember there was some option for that in the Tools tab of EAC Options. I may be thinking of an older version of EAC but I'm not sure.

there is. several checkboxes about it in fact, even mentioning winamp.

i'll respond to the other stuff later.

[Batter Pudding]

M3U \ M3U8 playlists.

Options in EAC are:

Create M3U playlist on extraction
Write M3U playlist with extended information
Write M3U playlist as UTF8 (compatible with i.e. Winamp)

From reading the pop-up help it is clear I need the UTF8 playlists to make sure I don't trash any Japanese text etc. So the files are written in Unicode.

So all three are ticked.

What I DON'T want is the extension written as *.m3u8 as I need *.m3u as the extension.

I listen to a lot of my music via a Blackberry Bold phone when out of the house. Either walking or via the car speakers. When I drag and dropped the EAC ripped albums to the phone I found the playlists were not picked up on the phone.

When I then just renamed the playlists to *.m3u instead of *.m3u8 they immediately worked. This shows the phone can read the Unicode playlists fine, but only if they have a three letter extension.

I cannot see an option to do this in EAC. (But it is a trivial issue as I can just use Win7 search to locate the *.m3u8 and rename to *.m3u directly on the phone's memory card)

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

When I then just renamed the playlists to *.m3u instead of *.m3u8 they immediately worked. This shows the phone can read the Unicode playlists fine, but only if they have a three letter extension.

I cannot see an option to do this in EAC. (But it is a trivial issue as I can just use Win7 search to locate the *.m3u8 and rename to *.m3u directly on the phone's memory card)

I do the same thing with a couple of my media players. They can read the Unicode playlists, but don't accept the extension.

I sent the vendors a request for firmware updates to accept both extensions. Until they do so, it is a trivial extra step (like you say) to give these players the extension that they want.

Enjoying the EAC discussion. I too have been tripped up from time to time by what is passed to external encoders. As has been said, EAC has not been updated for a while and newer versions of encoders may or may not understand what EAC is telling them to do.

[Batter Pudding]

Hi Aminifu....

I can't get the M3U\M3U8 issue fixed on the Blackberry Bold 9780 as they have clearly stopped updating the firmware as nothing new for over a year. Phone works great as it is, so it is pretty trivial for me to do the quick file rename.

I have to do similar with the artwork naming when I drag and drop most of my other music from my library to the phone as it wants folder.jpg. Most of my historically ripped library as albumname.jpg as the title. So a quick Win7 search on the phone on *.jpg to correct that as needed.

I notice that Winamp creates *.m3u files when it rips and album. But will use *.m3u8 files when it copies those playlists into the %appdata%\winamp\ml\plugin\playlist\ folder.

Nicely EAC will let me specify to name the artwork folder.jpg. So that is an easy one to fix.

EAC is certainly nicely tweakable, but as the start of this thread shows, sometimes there can be a "tweak too far".


As to lack of updates on EAC. Why add features when everything it does works? So makes sense to freeze development. Also notice that the main FLAC project hasn't been updated for even longer. So no chance that EAC will fire the wrong command line at the FLAC tool as EAC is newer.

I don't use any other encoder but FLAC. And as a happily fully paid up Winamp Pro user I make use of the MP3 encoding in there. My main library is stashed in FLAC, but if I want an MP3 copy of anything I just use Winamp's SendTo->Format Converter to convert between types. As long as the original rip to FLAC is "perfect" then any conversion to MP3 will be good enough for me.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

I don't use any other encoder but FLAC. And as a happily fully paid up Winamp Pro user I make use of the MP3 encoding in there. My main library is stashed in FLAC, but if I want an MP3 copy of anything I just use Winamp's SendTo->Format Converter to convert between types. As long as the original rip to FLAC is "perfect" then any conversion to MP3 will be good enough for me.

Sounds like a perfectly fine approach to me.

I've been using EAC to rip to wav for a long time. Then I let it use external encoders for flac and mp3, and now wavpack also (saving the wav). In the beginning, I also used Winamp to convert the wav to flac and mp3. Finding no discernible difference, I now use either to convert wav files as the mood hits me. After I'm sure the converted file is ok, I delete the wav.

Most of my collection is mp3. I'm in the process of re-ripping to lossless. At the rate I'm going, it is gonna take me a long time. I'm using wavpack because it uses ID3 tags. I have nothing against Vorbis, but I already know ID3. In all other key areas (except mobile device support) flac and wavpack are equal or nearly equal. Wavpack support on mobile devices is growing.

Edit:
It is worth the time to train EAC to make the best use of the CD/DVD device being used.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Nicely EAC will let me specify to name the artwork folder.jpg. So that is an easy one to fix.

EAC is certainly nicely tweakable, but as the start of this thread shows, sometimes there can be a "tweak too far".

well, that's IF i'm at fault. EAC might have configured itself improperly on the laptop drive I used to make the Beatle rips.

I actually let EAC name the art to the album name, and then post rip I go in with win exp, copy it, rename the copy to Folder.jpg and set both to be hidden but not system files, (using a cool, easy, quick free utility via context menu called attribute changer).

this means if a virus (or WMP or some other badly behaving app) ever hits the Folder.jpgs, there's a uniquely named backup in the folder.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

As to lack of updates on EAC. Why add features when everything it does works? So makes sense to freeze development. Also notice that the main FLAC project hasn't been updated for even longer. So no chance that EAC will fire the wrong command line at the FLAC tool as EAC is newer.

I've noticed that winamp has gone from 1.2.1 to 1.3 for flac. is this coincidence or what?

it looks like there is a 1.3 flac pre-release. has it gone official? I wonder what they changed, either winamp or flac itself?

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

I've noticed that winamp has gone from 1.2.1 to 1.3 for flac. is this coincidence or what?

it looks like there is a 1.3 flac pre-release. has it gone official? I wonder what they changed, either winamp or flac itself?

I'm confused. In my Winamp configuration (latest beta), the in_flac.dll is version 3.0.0.0 and the enc_flac.dll is version 2.4.0.0. What files are you referencing?

[Batter Pudding]

The majority of my collection is still in MP3 from when I spent a year ripping all my CDs before upgrading the HiFi. Add in various collections from friends and other sources and MP3 is the bulk.

Once the HiFi was updated the mission to "start again" on ripping to FLAC has been on. Winamp has done a fine job for me, but I know there are a couple of albums I hear a "click" on when playing back. This is why now I am swapping to EAC for the main rip task. I also have kept all my CDs so I can always format shift again any time I like.

The FLAC rips are being done on the albums I am listening to at the moment, and any new purchases. (Yes, I still *buy* CDs!!)

And as with most people, my moods change and I pull different albums out to listen to. As I do that I also pull the CD from the shelf and re-rip. (I find it painful to listen to MP3 now...) To give a bizarre picture of the music from this week: Plan B, Pink Floyd, Paloma Faith, Jimi Hendrix, The Pixies, The Levellers, and at this moment The Cure. As ripping is so quick to do I tend to sling disks on at random to get them done.


With the EAC training for the CD/DVD device I just let EAC do what it liked. I noticed with my Pioneer it was going on about something or other in the training. Which I let it do. When I put it on a client's PC on a cheap laptop EAC just said the DVD player was too cheap and nasty to actually be able to get any accurate details from and wasn't in the database. It is clear the differences in build quality with some kit.... but even then EAC clearly grabbed a good rip from the CDs.


I have been looking at this Hendrix CD from 1988 trying to find a good way to take a photo to show the damage. It is actually "The Jimi Hendrix Concerts" and not Smash Hits as I said earlier. Hold it up to the light and the pin prick holes stand out. But may be difficult to photograph. So clear as to the difference of manufacture. That silver going rightup to the outside edge, unlike a modern CD. A silver that has tarnished so much it is a pissy yellowy golden colour!

It is also a good example of why you don't leave greasy finger prints on a CD. Some of these finger prints are "burnt in" now. Corroded through. Yet EAC did a surprising job on what was recoverable.