BUG? no gapless FLAC / ALAC playback in winamp?

[lostinsound]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

ok, I was hoping to not get pulled into the weeds on this, but it seems I am. partly b/c this is hard to explain and partly b/c I don't know every outcome of every detail of every setting. but i'll give it a shot as long as you're willing to listen with an open mind.



lets look at the raw freedb data:

http://www.freedb.org/freedb/soundtrack/8e0a840a

notice, nowhere does it say "album artist"

what EAC does, is it pulls the first text before the slash of "DTITLE" and it uses that to fill in the box "CD Artist" in the EAC gui. it does that for either normal CDs or comps.

now, bear with me, i'll get to the mapping...



but normal CDs matter, and that box affects track artist listings for normal CDs, so in practice, in a normal, default EAC setup, that box works track artists, or does NOTHING.

meaning, on comp CDs, when things are PROPERLY MAPPED as they are BY DEFAULT, it DOES NOT MATTER whats in that box.

what you did, was for flac you changed the mapping from its defaults via cmd line, to use "CD Artist" to mean %albumartist% aka ALBUMARTIST, but THAT IS NOT HOW EAC COMES OUT OF THE BOX.

out of the box, CD Performer is what EAC uses for that, which it maps to %albuminterpret% aka ALBUMARTIST. it does that for both FLAC and mp3!

do you see where I am coming from now?

look at BPs unaltered FLAC command line:



NO WHERE do you see %albumartist% b/c that's the "CD Artist" which is IGNORED by EAC by default. you changed that, you remapped it to mean the AA tag. but that doesn't mean CD artist = albumartist the tag, it only means you changed EAC to mean that, but nothing more.

%albuminterpret% is what EAC uses by default to mean AA the tag, and that value is from CD Performer, and any guide for setting EAC up uses that for album artist the tag, since it works with FLAC and id3 by default, out of the box.



you have that meaning backwards... the "CD Artist" box, or value, is whats mapped TO %albumartist% which in turn you have mapped to the TAG FIELD named ALBUMARTIST in your command line.

but that's not what EAC does by default. it uses CD Performer, which maps to %albuminterpret% which then is mapped via command line to ALBUM ARTIST the tag (which can be either with or without the space, looks like without by default)



right, but YOU did that! that's not how it comes out of the box.

you made a change and have deduced everything from AFTER your change. that's not the right way to figure things out.

what do you think CD Performer is for anyway?

this is how EAC is setup, but what BP and I were saying is that FreeDB does NOT fill in CD Performer, and ergo we have to do it, to get AA tags.



that's b/c of the change you made. and perhaps you like it better the way you have it, but I would not like it that way, b/c I want to set AA tags myself, as FreeDB will frequently not fill it in the way I want, so a blank field is better to remind me.



that's np, but I do it the way I do it, in case a file gets corrupt tags and/or misplaced. it also helps autotagger.

Thank you for the detailed response. I realize that I had changed the default command line option.

I guess what it comes down to is that I'm using the CD Artist field in the same way that you're using CD Performer, in that I'm populating the AA tag with what's in the CD Artist field and you're populating the AA tag with the CD Performer field. In the end we're getting the same results.

But I would also say that your claim that the CD Artist field either works for Track Artists or nothing just isn't true. As I explained earlier, if the CD Artist field is different from all the individual track artists, like in a compilation, then it operates completely independent of the track artists, and you can set it to whatever you want without affecting anything else. So you can set the CD Artist field to Various Artists for example, which can then be written to the AA tag with my set up.

I guess the argument I would make for using my set up is that for almost every single CD I've ripped with EAC, when the freedb look up populates the CD Artist field, what it gives IS the Album Artist that I want written to the AA tag, including for compilations. So if it already writes the Album Artist I want to the CD Artist field automatically, why not just write that field directly to the AA tag rather than dealing with any additional tags like CD Performer?

But it really does come down to personal preference. I'm comfortable with the way I'm doing it as are you with your way, and I think in the end we're ending up with pretty much the same results.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by lostinsound

Thank you for the detailed response. I realize that I had changed the default command line option.

I guess what it comes down to is that I'm using the CD Artist field in the same way that you're using CD Performer, in that I'm populating the AA tag with what's in the CD Artist field and you're populating the AA tag with the CD Performer field. In the end we're getting the same results.

you changed the way it is intended to be used. and you also seem to accept FreeDB values for DTITLE as your AA tags, which would not work for me in many cases.

you should also realize there's more than just FLACs out there. i'm not sure how or even if you can do that with id3, as my mp3 command line is not verbose with tagging. but the way I describe is how its mapped for id3, and its not even visibly exposed like it is with FLAC.

mind you, there is nothing wrong with what works for you, but its one thing to say "this is what works for me" as opposed to "this is how it works for everyone" especially when that is not the intent and describes a customized situation.

Originally Posted by lostinsound

But I would also say that your claim that the CD Artist field either works for Track Artists or nothing just isn't true. As I explained earlier, if the CD Artist field is different from all the individual track artists, like in a compilation, then it operates completely independent of the track artists, and you can set it to whatever you want without affecting anything else. So you can set the CD Artist field to Various Artists for example, which can then be written to the AA tag with my set up.

what I said is ABSOLUTELY TRUE in a DEFAULT SETUP. I was trying to answer your initial post, when you wanted to know what 'we all were referring to,' and explain that CD Artist is, for EAC's purposes, "track artist" so you would understand why BP and I were saying we had to "remember" to fill in AA tags, b/c CD Performer is INTENDED for that purpose. you then launched into this whole thing saying that wasn't true, but that's based solely on your own, non-default, customized setup.

the point I was making to BP, is that if he used the cuetools online DB, or the GD online DB, I think he would get CD Performer values, but I can't currently test that. but I was telling him that b/c he lamented the lack of automatic AA tags.

OR, if he was comfortable with it, he could use your solution as well, I wouldn't begrudge that to anyone who saw fit to use it.

Originally Posted by lostinsound

I guess the argument I would make for using my set up is that for almost every single CD I've ripped with EAC, when the freedb look up populates the CD Artist field, what it gives IS the Album Artist that I want written to the AA tag, including for compilations. So if it already writes the Album Artist I want to the CD Artist field automatically, why not just write that field directly to the AA tag rather than dealing with any additional tags like CD Performer?

I agree, that's a very solid, legitimate POV. but it would not work for me, and it did not pertain to my explanation of what BP and I were referring to, (AA behavior in a traditional default-ish setup).

Originally Posted by lostinsound

But it really does come down to personal preference. I'm comfortable with the way I'm doing it as are you with your way, and I think in the end we're ending up with pretty much the same results.

again, I don't begrudge you your way at all.

as to the same results... idk about that. I have a fairly involved AA naming method, that FreeDB doesn't really come close to, except for those CDs where AA and track artist are one and the same, but that's simple enough to just copy and paste anyway.

besides, EAC "learns" and autofills your entries over time regardless.

anyway, i'm glad we now understand each other on this topic. BP, I started this thread, so don't worry about OT-ness. I think this is a good place to discuss EAC and speculate as to how I bungled my FLACs, and / or if cue tools can fix them precisely?

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Nicely EAC will let me specify to name the artwork folder.jpg. So that is an easy one to fix.

EAC is certainly nicely tweakable, but as the start of this thread shows, sometimes there can be a "tweak too far".

well, that's IF i'm at fault. EAC might have configured itself improperly on the laptop drive I used to make the Beatle rips.

I actually let EAC name the art to the album name, and then post rip I go in with win exp, copy it, rename the copy to Folder.jpg and set both to be hidden but not system files, (using a cool, easy, quick free utility via context menu called attribute changer).

this means if a virus (or WMP or some other badly behaving app) ever hits the Folder.jpgs, there's a uniquely named backup in the folder.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

As to lack of updates on EAC. Why add features when everything it does works? So makes sense to freeze development. Also notice that the main FLAC project hasn't been updated for even longer. So no chance that EAC will fire the wrong command line at the FLAC tool as EAC is newer.

I've noticed that winamp has gone from 1.2.1 to 1.3 for flac. is this coincidence or what?

it looks like there is a 1.3 flac pre-release. has it gone official? I wonder what they changed, either winamp or flac itself?

[lostinsound]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

you changed the way it is intended to be used. and you also seem to accept FreeDB values for DTITLE as your AA tags, which would not work for me in many cases.

you should also realize there's more than just FLACs out there. i'm not sure how or even if you can do that with id3, as my mp3 command line is not verbose with tagging. but the way I describe is how its mapped for id3, and its not even visibly exposed like it is with FLAC.

I only use EAC for ripping to FLAC so I don't deal with id3 tags at all in EAC.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

mind you, there is nothing wrong with what works for you, but its one thing to say "this is what works for me" as opposed to "this is how it works for everyone" especially when that is not the intent and describes a customized situation.

Nowhere did I ever come close to saying that the way I do things is the only way or that everyone should do it. BP said he had to manually type in the Album Artist every time, and I was surprised by that because I've never had to do that with the way I have it set up. I was just hoping for a discussion and to try and better understand what others are doing to see if I'm missing something.

If anything, you've been making me feel like the way I do things is somehow inferior because it's not the DEFAULT EAC functionality. "Default" is not equivalent to "intended purpose". I really am not concerned with the default settings of EAC, I'm concerned with making my use of EAC as streamlined and efficient as I can for my purposes.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

what I said is ABSOLUTELY TRUE in a DEFAULT SETUP. I was trying to answer your initial post, when you wanted to know what 'we all were referring to,' and explain that CD Artist is, for EAC's purposes, "track artist" so you would understand why BP and I were saying we had to "remember" to fill in AA tags, b/c CD Performer is INTENDED for that purpose. you then launched into this whole thing saying that wasn't true, but that's based solely on your own, non-default, customized setup.

When I said it wasn't true, I was talking purely about functionality, and was trying to state that the CD Artist field was not useless if you have it set up the way I do. You made it sound like it was useless under all circumstances and I was just trying to point out that wasn't true. That's all I was saying.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by lostinsound

Nowhere did I ever come close to saying that the way I do things is the only way or that everyone should do it. BP said he had to manually type in the Album Artist every time, and I was surprised by that because I've never had to do that with the way I have it set up. I was just hoping for a discussion and to try and better understand what others are doing to see if I'm missing something.

yes, but you shouldn't have been surprised, knowing that you had changed it then. and when I tried to explain that's not how EAC is supposed to work, which explains why that was not kosher for me and BP, you disagreed. (meaning you insisted "CD Artist" is AA in post 19, and for me and BP and all other default users, which is what I was explaining, it isn't, and further is NOT supposed to be).

at this point, we start to go round in circles.

Originally Posted by lostinsound

If anything, you've been making me feel like the way I do things is somehow inferior because it's not the DEFAULT EAC functionality. "Default" is not equivalent to "intended purpose". I really am not concerned with the default settings of EAC, I'm concerned with making my use of EAC as streamlined and efficient as I can for my purposes.

actually, I've gone to great lengths to say there is nothing wrong with your way. what I do object to, and have already illustrated above, is you making customizations, and then using them to justify "CD Artist" should be what makes AA values/tags; BUT that is not the case without said customizations, esp given that AA tags already would exist as "CD Performer" in all formats, not just FLAC.

in your first post you describe your custom setup, and them seem perplexed that BP and I don't see the same behavior, and so you ask what exactly we're referring to... but that would have been clear to someone in a default setup, which I then tried to explain.

now, clearly default IS = to intended purpose, esp in this case. you could set CD Artist / %albumartist% to write to the COMMENT tag, but that would not be the intended purpose, even tho you can do it.

the way Andre set it up to work on a new install is not just a default, but also the INTENEDED way it is meant to be used. otherwise, WHY would it be setup that way??? is it NOT intended to be used that way? is it setup, by default, to be used in a way that is unintended? no, of course not. now, i'm not saying its the only way, or even the only valid way, but it clearly is the default intended way. that is beyond rational question.

Originally Posted by lostinsound

When I said it wasn't true, I was talking purely about functionality, and was trying to state that the CD Artist field was not useless if you have it set up the way I do. You made it sound like it was useless under all circumstances and I was just trying to point out that wasn't true. That's all I was saying.

I never said or implied it was useless under all circumstances. I said it does NOTHING on comp CDs in a default setup, which is true.

in your second post you say this:

If you look at the Filename tab under EAC options it says this:

%artist% - Track artist
%albumartist% - CD artist

So CD artist is the album artist

that sounds like beyond "just functionality in your setup," but rather justification for your customization in the first place. in other words, you are taking just a descriptive mapping, and the terms used, and saying that then has to equal the tag written. but that just isn't so.

as I have illustrated clearly now, this is NOT TRUE in a DEFAULT EAC setup, vis a vis WRITING TAGS. it just isn't. you changed EAC to make it true via cmd line, but that's a situation that only applies to you and others like you. anything wrong with it? no. valid? certainly. but what you can't say is that CD Artist is SUPPOSED to be an AA tag, when it ISN'T without your customization, just b/c of the filename mapping chart.

FreeDB doesn't call the value AA either. its just the first text in DTITLE. Andre could just as easily have had that map to CD Performer in the gui, instead of CD Artist. or send it to both, maybe by pref! but that doesn't change what FreeDB calls it.

likewise, he could have set CD Artist to be %albuminterpret% and CD Performer to be %albumartist% but that doesn't mean this is that or that is this, etc.

just fyi, the reason its like this to begin with is that EAC has evolved over time. CD Performer didn't use to exist in the GUI at all. CD Artist was there, and has always, ttbomk, mapped to %albumartist%

so, when Andre later introduced "CD Performer" he created %albuminterpret% for it, b/c he wanted to leave the legacy mapping stuff in place (meaning unchanged to what it linked to in the GUI). I would have changed it, but he's the dev, not me.

as I said to start, I find what EAC does counterintuitive and confusing. but it is the reality.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

I've noticed that winamp has gone from 1.2.1 to 1.3 for flac. is this coincidence or what?

it looks like there is a 1.3 flac pre-release. has it gone official? I wonder what they changed, either winamp or flac itself?

I'm confused. In my Winamp configuration (latest beta), the in_flac.dll is version 3.0.0.0 and the enc_flac.dll is version 2.4.0.0. What files are you referencing?

[DrO]

libflac went from 1.2.1 to 1.3.whatever and isn't final but for what Winamp uses, for the desktop it's fine to be using i believe (what actually changed i don't know but i've not bothered to look at the rest of this thread).

in_flac.dll was bumped to 3.0 due to the libflac change and streaming changes.

enc_flac was bumped due to the libflac change and some resource changes.

[Batter Pudding]

Go into the preferences \ Media Library \ CD Ripping \ Encoder Tab. Select FLAC. Then notice the libFLAC is v1.3.0

Kinda funny as it includes a link to the SourceForge project. Yet the change log on there stops at 1.2.1 back in 2007.

[Batter Pudding]

Originally Posted by DrO

(what actually changed i don't know but i've not bothered to look at the rest of this thread)

This thread is a world of confusion... probably safer to run away as we quickly got to the point of spotting that Winamp is perfect for Gapless playback and there is no bug. Then went into a tangent about EAC...

[DrO]

excellent, that's all i need to know that it's not Winamp at fault (for a change).

[Batter Pudding]

Originally Posted by DrO

excellent, that's all i need to know that it's not Winamp at fault (for a change).

It's okay. We should be able to find some angle where we can blame you. From what I read in the newspapers it was Winamp that killed Thatcher. And is causing the delayed summer. As well as most of the world's debt.

[Aminifu]

Hi DrO and Batter Pudding,

Thanks for the info on libflac. I have temporarily removed "ml_disc.dll", so I don't see that tab in my preferences.

[DrO]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

I have temporarily removed "ml_disc.dll"

that reminds me, i need to get something done about the temp files / on load crash issue (seeing as it seems to stem from the same part of code).

[Batter Pudding]

Originally Posted by DrO

that reminds me, i need to get something done about the temp files / on load crash issue (seeing as it seems to stem from the same part of code).

By your not reading this thread and just spotting the last posts we have actually done something useful and helpful here by jogging your memory.

I heard that Winamp is the world's leading cause of global warming and the company is actually run by David Icke's Lizard Army.

[MrSinatra]

just fyi, I saw the flac changes in the ver history.

perhaps there is a fork of flac dev that is outside the official source?

[Benski]

FLAC files should be gapless regardless of the settings you used to create them. If you have any specific files that you think don't work, feel free to pass them along to me. I like to FLAC files every day and lack of gaplessness is something that probably wouldn't go unnoticed. However, your settings might be different than mine.

[Aminifu]

Hi All,

Is the discussion about small bits of silence at the end (and/or beginning) of the flac files or bits of silence within the files to replace missing samples?

In the first case won't the silence detection feature in the DirectSound output plug-in handle that? Also, it has been my experience that most ripping apps are able to append or ignore most of the intentional silence between tracks on a commercial CD.

In the second case, missing samples should only occur if the media disc and/or CD/DVD drive are damaged or defective in some way.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

just fyi, I saw the flac changes in the ver history.

Ah, the libFLAC change is listed. I need to pay better attention to the entire change log.

But version info is not provided in the file's properties. However, Nullsoft devs are not the only ones who fail to provide this info in their library files.

[DrO]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

But version info is not provided in the file's properties. However, Nullsoft devs are not the only ones who fail to provide this info in their library files.

All of the native plug-in dlls should have a version resource on them since the last public beta. Some of the supporting dlls don't have one (nde.dll, jnetlib.dll) and probably should even though we don't version them directly (though can just version them against the Winamp release if needed like we do with elevator.exe, winampa.exe, etc). with 3rd party libraries, i guess we can do the same, it's just that some lucky bugger needs to keep on top of them though same applies for the native plug-ins.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Benski

FLAC files should be gapless regardless of the settings you used to create them. If you have any specific files that you think don't work, feel free to pass them along to me. I like to FLAC files every day and lack of gaplessness is something that probably wouldn't go unnoticed. However, your settings might be different than mine.

hi Benski, thx for the reply.

the problem is NOT winamps, its mine. I made the files incorrectly somehow. I made them with EAC, and I think it was a drive offset issue, but I'm not sure. it was either something I did wrong, or something EAC did wrong with the hardware I was using at that time. the files have about a tenth of a second of silence tacked onto the end of them for some reason, and of course this kills gapless-ness.

if you would still like to see these files, I can post them somewhere I guess?

[Aminifu]

Hi MrSinatra,

A tenth of a second seems pretty small, but depending on how consecutive tracks end and begin, it can be noticed.

But if gapless means no delay between the end and start of tracks, and the consecutive tracks end and begin very softy, then what does gapless really mean in that case? What I can't tolerate are gaps within a song.

I either use intentional short gaps between tracks or crossfade. Gapless playback lost any real meaning for me a long time ago. Just saying, I know others may disagree.

[MrSinatra]

gapless playback is essential for albums like DSOTM and Abbey Road and many others, and trust me, the tenth of a second is incredibly annoying and undesirable.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

gapless playback is essential for albums like DSOTM and Abbey Road and many others, and trust me, the tenth of a second is incredibly annoying and undesirable.

It is a lot harder for most ripping apps to correctly extract individual tracks from CDs designed so that the tracks flow from one to the other. I seem to remember EAC having some special feature(s) to help with this. But I could be miss-remembering, it has been a long time since I've had to deal with that issue.

It is easier to just make 1 file containing all the tracks, when it is essential to maintain the CD performance. After-all, it is one continuous flow of music anyway.

I also don't like dealing with those CDs that include short (a few seconds) musical and/or vocal interludes between the main tracks. It's not the ripping, but having to decide whether to include these interludes so that I would have a true representation of the CDs.

[ujay]

Haven't ripped a CD in anger for a few years so may be a bit out of date.

There used to be a problem in as much as rippers could only handle full sectors, so you would inevitable have to cut one track slightly short to get gapless, or put up with a small amout of padding.

Some of the better rippers, such a Feurio, could intelligently sort this out, or you could rip it all as one track and then insert cue points at the track changes.

No idea how the latest software handles this.

UJ

[MrSinatra]

EAC and other rippers can do gapless as separate tracks, and have been able to for years. I have EAC made mp3 rips that are perfectly gapless. my bum flacs are an anomaly unique to me.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

I have EAC made mp3 rips that are perfectly gapless. my bum flacs are an anomaly unique to me.

I want to be sure I understand what you're saying, don't want to argue.

Are these rips perfect in that there is no silence at the end and beginning of each track? Or, are they perfect in that they end and begin exactly at the transition point between the consecutive songs on a gapless CD?

[MrSinatra]

idk. but what I am saying is that they are perfect in the sense that they playback gaplessly. so in other words, I can not discern the difference between the tracks playing back as files, from the CD itself.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

idk. but what I am saying is that they are perfect in the sense that they playback gaplessly. so in other words, I can not discern the difference between the tracks playing back as files, from the CD itself.

Ok.

I asked earlier about the DirectSound output plug-in's silence detection feature. Are you using that? If not, try it, it may let Winamp skip over the silence at the end of those flacs, at least until you can re-rip them.

It can be a little tricky selecting the dB level and buffering to achieve the best results.

[MrSinatra]

thx, but i'm not really into those kinds of workarounds.

I was feeling despair but I tried cuetools. this is an incredibly powerful utility and also only for people who have a clue, and even then its challenging. I am doing quite a bit of trial and error.

however, one of its features is "fix offset" and that has FIXED my flacs, and better yet, it reruns them thru accuraterip post fix so you can see that they are still perfect.

it seemingly also has the ability to convert formats or even allow differing libraries for codecs. I might be able to both fix the offset, AND re-encode to ALAC simultaneously. (i'm trying to find out if "10" is ALACs highest compression value, which "8" is for FLAC)

i'm only scratching the surface here I think. but its NOT super easy to use, so be warned.

I've known about cuetools for years, but I (stupidly) had thought it was primarily only for uses involving cuesheets. so, I have catching up to do.

also, it seems to not require to be installed, meaning no messing about in your registry, altho i'm not sure.

http://www.cuetools.net/wiki/Main_Page

FLAC fyi:

http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/flac...ch/003695.html

https://git.xiph.org/?p=flac.git;a=summary

[Aminifu]

I see that CUETools also supports WavPack. So something else to add to my toolbox. Thanks for the link.

When I download mp3s with excessive silence at the beginning and/or end, I use "mp3DirectCut" to clip it off. It is able to do this without re-encoding the files. It is also able to fadeout a selectable portion of the end of files I've downloaded that end abruptly. It has become harder to find high quality free downloads, so sometimes I'm stuck with files like this. Most of what I download I have on vinyl or tape and I'm too cheap to buy a CD version.

http://mpesch3.de1.cc/mp3dc.html

[MrSinatra]

i'm not sure why ur mentioning it, but np, its worth discussion. I just dl'd it and it seems really involved. I have a mp3 you can check out:

http://www.4shared.com/mp3/yFFB3UK4/...-_Lithium.html

tell me, how would that mp3 be handled? at what point does it think "noise or silence" as opposed to signal?

[ujay]

It doesn't think, you have to do that for yourself.

The main feature of Mp3DC is that unlike using a standard wave editor, the editing is done directly on the original file and doesn't involve any decoding/re-encoding losses.

You can use a standard wave editor to do your flac files in PCM, no need for anything more.

UJ

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by ujay

It doesn't think, you have to do that for yourself.

The main feature of Mp3DC is that unlike using a standard wave editor, the editing is done directly on the original file and doesn't involve any decoding/re-encoding losses.

but it has batch processing? I was under the impression you could automate it to some degree...

Originally Posted by ujay

You can use a standard wave editor to do your flac files in PCM, no need for anything more.

UJ

I know, but if you have the offset issue, ur better off automating 4608 samples out then trying to do so manually.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

i'm not sure why ur mentioning it, but np, its worth discussion. I just dl'd it and it seems really involved. I have a mp3 you can check out:

Sorry, I know this thread is about silence at the end of some flac files and how it got there. Since mp3 and flac are the most used formats, I decided to add the comments (DS silence detection and mp3DirectCut) about ways to deal with silence at the end/start of flacs or mp3s. What follows will be the last OT comments.

For this task mp3DirectCut is best used manually (other things it does can be automated). After loading a file, you get a re-sizable graphic of the file's waveform. Scroll and set a starting playback point near the end of the file and start it playing. Listen and watch for the start of the silence. Then you can select that portion of the file and cut it out. Start playback from the beginning if the silence is at that end. Listen, watch, then select and cut out the offending portion. You can redo (before saving) if needed. Best to use a copy of a file, until you get the hang of it. The hardest part is picking the right command to save the file (instead of a project) when you are done. The help documentation is good at explaining what isn't intuitive.

Some automatic tools are "mpTrim" and "WavTrim". The free versions have file size limits.

http://www.mptrim.com/

As mentioned by others, there are other tools available for this kind of thing.

[MrSinatra]

the whole thread is OT, so don't worry about it. its been a good place to have random discussion.

did u look at my file? see, I picked that one on purpose. it has an interesting ending, in that it fades out, goes quiet, and then seemingly silent.

what I would want, is to batch process my files such that the silent parts only were cut. but what I am asking is how does one do that? if u look, even the silent part has little nubs or blips in it. how does the app discern? strictly by db level?

[Aminifu]

Hi,

No, I have not looked at your file. Don't really need to. I also don't like to register just to download a file. There are other sharing sites where that is not required.

Anyway, 'dirty' files with noise spikes or 'what have you' in the otherwise silent portion at the end and/or beginning are best 'fixed' manually.

The automatic tools I mentioned allow for a dB level to be selected. The portion(s) at the end and/or beginning below this level are removed. Of course, these work best with files with 'clean' silent portions.

I purchased mpTrim Pro years ago and it has been worth the money for me, since most of my downloaded files with excessive silent portions have had 'clean' silent portions.

[MrSinatra]

4shared is a good site, free, no spam and registration is quick. others I used stopped working. what ones would u like?

no one said you "need to" ...I was trying to ask something. if u are not interested, fine.

I am not interested in buying anything. I was trying to figure out how the app you suggested works. I have thousands of files and so doing things totally manually is not an option for me.

[Batter Pudding]

Wetransfer.com is a good file transfer site. I use it for huge things. You don't need to supply the email addresses if you don't want to as you are also handed a link. Click the little icon next to the TRANSFER button to swap to getting a link. No dodgy adverts either. I've sent 1.5Gb video files around with this service.

They have had my email address for over a year and no spam on it. It is only used to tell you when your files have been downloaded.

sendspace.com is another one often used. Neither need registration.


MrS - are you sure you would trust a software algorithm to trim silence from that many tracks? Automatically - without really being able to check the results?

Unless there is a really obvious pattern to your extra silence on your tracks, I would have thought you are going to get a few "odd" results. Wouldn't it be safer to just deal with the few concept albums and concerts that gapless is important to, and leave the rest?

I did have to laugh earlier when I saw some post on Amazon about the MP3s that have been sold of Dark Side of the Moon. It looks like Amazon added gaps to the rips... either that or the posters complaining have rubbish MP3 players.

Is "adding gaps" a standard thing?

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

4shared is a good site, free, no spam and registration is quick. others I used stopped working. what ones would u like?

no one said you "need to" ...I was trying to ask something. if u are not interested, fine.

I am not interested in buying anything. I was trying to figure out how the app you suggested works. I have thousands of files and so doing things totally manually is not an option for me.

I have no reason to doubt that 4shared is a good site. I just don't like to register, just to download. I will when necessary.

In this case, it is not. I've seen plenty of files like you describe. The quality of rips provided by the general public is appallingly low. But, I don't mean to imply lack of interest. I'm always interested in digital music related stuff.

I'm not a mp3DirectCut expert. I learn as I use it and read the docs when I need to. For what I use it for, it is simple and quick. Don't really know what more I can say of a general nature. If you have a specific question, I will try to answer it.

I do not know of a free automated way to effectively remove excessive silence from music files. Even the commercial tools are not very effective unless the kind of silence in the files allow them to be. So some things are still best done 'hands-on', the old fashioned way.

Also, nothing is really free, imo. I rather pay a few dollars up front for something useful than pay through the 'back door' (ads and such).

I don't need to tell you that it is best to 'vet' files in small batches as you acquire them, instead of letting things pile up. But it is, what it is. I'm sure you will find a practical solution for those you listen to that really annoy you.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

MrS - are you sure you would trust a software algorithm to trim silence from that many tracks? Automatically - without really being able to check the results?

maybe, but one thing I was looking for was an app to generate a list, let me see how many "potential candidates" i'd be dealing with. in other words, something to ID things I should look at, at which point I could decide what merits manual attn. vs automatic.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

Unless there is a really obvious pattern to your extra silence on your tracks, I would have thought you are going to get a few "odd" results. Wouldn't it be safer to just deal with the few concept albums and concerts that gapless is important to, and leave the rest?

the issue I had to start this thread is apparently common enough for cuetools, (a gold standard in its realm) to have made it a built in default option to fix. its some kind of offset issue in exact amounts of 4096 or multiples thereof, it then detects and removes them.

using cuetools, I was able to convert all my Beatle flacs to m4a ALAC, and simultaneously "fix" the rips. they now play flawlessly.

I have not seen this same exact issue in my collection outside of my Beatle rips, so hopefully it is not present elsewhere. I do have some older lame rips that probably should be re-ripped, to improve their gapless playback, but i'll just have to find those as I go.

what I was asking for as far as removing silence automatically with a utility though is different, b/c I keep my downloaded files segregated from my rips, and most of them are not albums, and some were just sloppily made by others and have sometimes seconds of silence at the end of them. so I was going to start on those files.

Originally Posted by Batter Pudding

I did have to laugh earlier when I saw some post on Amazon about the MP3s that have been sold of Dark Side of the Moon. It looks like Amazon added gaps to the rips... either that or the posters complaining have rubbish MP3 players.

Is "adding gaps" a standard thing?

I know SOME oddballs choose to add or insert gaps where otherwise there are none, but your report is the first I've heard of a vender screwing up an otherwise meant to be gapless album. imo, an album should be ripped as is, whether it be lossy or lossless. and a vender should not alter it.

anyway, I am nearing the end of my FLAC > m4a process, and while I still think FLAC is an entirely amazing lossless codec, with the best method of tagging, I have found two real world pros to make m4a ALAC my lossless codec of choice:

1. it works with apple/iTunes and winamp. I knew this already, but in that way its unique. its all native now.

2. what I did not know, is that the m4a ALAC files would be natively supported by windows explorer, (FLAC is not). that's important to me, b/c it makes a big difference when you're shuffling things around, trying to keep 70k+ files organized.

the only hiccup so far is another thread in bug reports I posted demonstrating some oddness on oddball flac to alac files as played / parsed by winamp. but i'm confident those issues will be resolved and I don't think (or so I hope) they apply to more "normal" spec'd files anyway.