The Euro.

[Bilbo Baggins]

It is now official currency in a number of countries across the member states of the European Union. Is this a move towards a federal, "One nation" Europe, or is it simply good economic sense? Is this an attempt by the Germans to slowly take over Europe once more, or do broader aims underline it?

Some links:

BBC detail about the Euro

The Euro in Pictures (BBC)

The Coins and Notes themselves

The Euro official site (British version)

Can we try and keep this topic on topic and sensible. I am doing this partly out of my own interest, but also for resarch as I have to make a video about the Euro for my school archives.

[Bilbo Baggins]

The poll will give me a broad overview of concensus.

[Xerxes]

Its a good idea for all the countries involved in it- as it

1. Helps stop any strange price anomalies caused by currency arbitrage
2. Aids cross country investments both small and major
3. Eliminates some banking and exchange infrastructure

The major bad thing is that it prevents any one country from enacting much in the way of monetary policy to strengthen or weaken the currency (As in the issuing and buying of bonds)

But overall I say its a good thing

[fish]

Even though I have nothing to do with it, I voted that it's a good thing.

The standardization of the currency in the EU pretty much binds the economies of all the countries, making the Euro stronger and stronger if everything happens the way it should.

[I have a huge]

It's all good!
Great Britain's staying out of it though, huh?

[John M]

i'm really indifferent, mainly because i live in the US. however, i'm not sure of the prudence of the move because if one nation's economy collapses (see argentina) then other nations get dragged down too. then again, you dont have a national currency to debase. i think its really one of those wait and see type things.

[s1138]

sure its a good thing from an economical standpoint.
however, for the people that have to deal with the change, its gonna be a bitch.

and for my coin collecting hobby...yay! more stuff

[I have a huge]

I see the blind(no pun intended)are having problems with the "Euro"

[MamiyaOtaru]

All of the shop owners must like it. Things that used to cost *.99 in marks are now some weird price in Euros. To adjust the price so it is *.99 in euros, you can bet all the prices will be adjusted up instead of down. ie, a free little price hike.

example: 7.99 marks = (guesstimate) 4.12 Euros. Not a *.99 number, so the new price will be 4.99 euros. hurrah.

have all the vending machines/pay phones been changed over yet?

[ujay]

Originally posted by MamiyaOtaru
All of the shop owners must like it. Things that used to cost *.99 in marks are now some weird price in Euros. To adjust the price so it is *.99 in euros, you can bet all the prices will be adjusted up instead of down. ie, a free little price hike

Ain't it always.
Remember this happening when we went decimal and when we went metric.

One of the benefits given for the euro is that it will even out the effects of inflation, boom and bust cycles and other fluctuations. On the other hand it also means if it does crash it will crash in a big way.

Needed to be done I think.

UJ

[Kalervo Manni]

I think it's good. I haven't used euros yet, Finland was also among with other euro countries. If I have to go for example to Germany, doesn't need exchange money. And it makes easier to compare prices between EU and US because Euro and USD values are very close to each others.

[ujay]

Good point that Kalervo. I do a fair amount of driving across Europe and always come back with a hat full of small change because it's easier to break another note than to sort out all the odds and ends of different currencies in your pockets.

UJ

[The Valkyrie]

The Euro is purely political. People talked of one supernation being made up EU countries and future EU members, but the truth is that's not going to happen for a long while, probably not while I'm still alive. Why?

1. Too many differences between nations in terms of agenda, ambititons and economic systems. Even social too! I mean, Germans are hell workaholics, French and semi-crazy, English are poshy and conservative, Scottish are stingy and Greeks don't know what plane-spotting is.

2. The EU is an asshole. A grocery store owner was arrested for using impirical units (pounds, ounces and stuff) which conflicts with EU's Metric unit law.

3. The EU is a burden on rich nations. Today, Germany is suffering from an economic slump because it's bearing too much burden caused by the EU. All the expenses, problems and slumps caused by the EU goes to Germany. One of the reasons Britain did not join the Euro is because it knew that the Euro's value will slump - and it did - and it will bring a great burden to England, being one of the three world financial capitals(with Tokyo and New York).

The Euro itself was created purely for political reasons; sorta to strengthen the europeans' faith in the EU, and it seemed to have successes already. National pride was an issue, so each Euro coins have one side common to all Euro members, and the other unique to each country. Go to Germany, and look at a German Euro coin; the Eagle on it looks fat, cartoonesque, and mildly amusing - How un-Deutchland.

Still, now that it's been created, trade with EU nations will be much easier, and Euro will become as important currency as the US dollar. Maybe even more important, as in the Euro zone alone, it's an even bigger market to trade with than America. The EU's GDP per capita is nearly as high as America's, and that's only an average pulled downwards by poorer EU members like Spain, Portugal and Greece. The Euro zone houses more population than the USA, and many of them are in wealthy countries like Germany, France and Austria, whose GDPs per capital are far higher than the US's.

So ideally, you really have to balance between the Euro's benefits and liabilities. Overall, it's a good-ish move - not the wisest of moves, but good-ish.

[WolfieD]

Man, someone's gonna be in a boat somewhere, and he's gonna get tired, and look to the person he's sailing with, and say "ALL RIGHT! I'M TIRED! EURO!"

[mark e]

Well... I think Euro is good, nothin' bad... In Estonia where I live is it too after 1. January... Jeeee... That's good...

[Naamloos]

Newest Euro

[mark e]

Originally posted by Naamloos
Newest Euro

Yeah Yeah... I have used them in da bank and shop... And I have them now in my pocket... Yeah... Beauties...

[I have a huge]

Originally posted by WolfieD
Man, someone's gonna be in a boat somewhere, and he's gonna get tired, and look to the person he's sailing with, and say "ALL RIGHT! I'M TIRED! EURO!"

OUCH!
You're the Gary Coleman of comedy. Still coming up short

[Xerxes]

Is it me, or is the German National Euro Coin (Second from the top) a little nazi-ish?

[cmisker]

The euro.

Alright, I've had a couple of presentations about the euro already at college.

Advantage: One currency for the whole EMU (European Monetary Union, so not the whole EU (European Union), since some countries in the EU (most) didn't have the right budget (too much in debt and stuff) and some chose not to enter the EMU, because they thought the euro wouldn't be a good, strong coin)). Anyawys, the advantage of one currency is, like said before, that you wouldn't have to get different coins all the time when you travel through the EMU.

Another advantage: Euro-pride! "I'm glad to be an European!!!". This will strongen (?) the feeling for one Europe, so this way governments can get more regulations and stuff easily, because it's for the better of the Euro-countries.

Another advantage: Price comparission. This is especially good for the competition and thus the consumers in the EMU countries. Think about it, I live really close to the German border. Dutch shopkeepers can't have high prices, because then we'll just go over the border and buy the same thing in Germany. It'll be easier to see if the Greeks are ripping you off whenever you buy a beer there. Stuff like that.

Disadvantage: The most important disadvantage is that a country can't do something about the inflation and other economical things alone anymore. When there is a big inflation in The Netherlands, the Dutch National Bank can't lower the interest rate, because it's all done by the European Bank now (director of that bank: Mr. Duisenberg, oh yeah, a Dutch guy, because, well, we all know, The Netherlands is one very good money-thinking country! ). In the long run though, this wouldn't matter, because the national economical system should kinda adjust to eachother, so we won't have a Dutch economical system, a German economical system, a French economical system, but just one European economical system. That'll be good.

Another disadvantage: the national coin is gone... The nationalists don't like it, because they are afraid of this big one Europe. But oh well, I think there are more people who can on vacation in other European countries that will love one coin.

Man, think about it.. whenever you go to Europe, you just get a whole bunch of euro's and spend them in all the EMU countries. That's just great. So good for tourism!

BTW "The euro is just politics", how can money just be politics!??! To me, it seems economical too! Okay, it's for one European Union, but also, it's for better trade between countries, which isn't political, but economical. Ofcourse, it's thought up by politics, but I'm sure businessmen helped develop it too! Duh.

Another BTW At least in the Dutch language, it's euro and not Euro (without the capital E)... I mean, money is important, but I don't think it's important enough to write it with a capital... You don't write "That'll be 5 Dollars, please" either, do you?

Okay, this is just my €0.02. My longest reply ever.

[cmisker]

Originally posted by Xerxes


Is it me, or is the German National Euro Coin (Second from the top) a little nazi-ish?

lol.. Nazi-ish would be just their little symbol with those lines and stuff.. This is just a German symbol (I think). German and Nazi are not the same.

[Xerxes]

Originally posted by cmisker

Disadvantage: The most important disadvantage is that a country can't do something about the inflation and other economical things alone anymore.

Yes, don't underestimate how much of a problem this could be. If a country can't enact monetary policy during a crisis... bad things can happen.

In the US, its so important that not even the president or congress can affect monetary policy. The president can only hire/fire the chairman of the Federal Reserve (Greenspan) who can do whatever he pleases.

Originally posted by cmisker

we all know, The Netherlands is one very good money-thinking country!

Historically, a very correct assumption - you people were the original mercantile masters


On the the issue of "Der Nazi Eagle Euro" -

I collect rare coins, and i have a couple Nazi pieces. Nazi Riechsmark coins have similar eagles on them... but not so streamlined. So again, their rebuilding the Riechstag building and now this interesting coin...hmmmm...

[ujay]

Originally posted by cmisker
lol.. Nazi-ish would be just their little symbol with those lines and stuff.. This is just a German symbol (I think). German and Nazi are not the same.

True the Eagle has been a German symbol for quite a while.
I see what Xerxes means by nazi-ish though, The straight lines, the sharp angles, regularity etc. This was a feature of both nazi and communist art and has a lot to do with the way of thinking involved in totalitarian regimes. Got to keep every thing neatly under control and use symbols to there full effect. If you like that sort of thing, you can plainly see three points of a pentagram.

UJ

[Xerxes]

Yes! You see it! Its like an "Evil Totalitarian Art Deco" style...

[sinead]

I think it's a good *idea*, but I'm not sure how well it will actually work.

[ujay]

Originally posted by Xerxes
Yes! You see it! Its like an "Evil Totalitarian Art Deco" style...

Let's not push it too far

UJ

[binary hero]

At first I thought it was a bad idea, but now it is in effect, I can see that it would be a positive move for our country.

[Predatorsfan2000]

The Euro is a very good and strong currency for now. However, I think one currency and many different national governments is a bad idea. The Germans and the French get along so well you know. The main reason is what xerxes said though:

If a country can't enact monetary policy during a crisis... bad things can happen.

In the US, its so important that not even the president or congress can affect monetary policy. The president can only hire/fire the chairman of the Federal Reserve (Greenspan) who can do whatever he pleases.

Unless Europe wants to truly unify and let the EU be more powerful and the sole Federal government of all of Europe, kind of like the US states, then I foresee problems. Of course, the Euro could turn out to be a spectacular success, which I hope for since it would effect the U.S. economy greatly if Europe went tumbling into economic hell. Only time will tell for sure.

[Ra1nMaker]

I live in England and therefore we haven't got Euros.
I know alot of people will be pleased by this, and are very keen to keep the pound.
I however disagree, the longer the UK stays out of the Euro the worse, in my opinion.
It's now happening and if the UK want's to keep up with Europe and the rest of the world we can't afford to hang on the the 'little England' mentality that I think alot of people here atill hold.
Where by we ignore outside influences and become very stubborn about change.
This may have worked a while ago when Europe was at war and it was everyone to there own. This is not the case now, and holding back now against the flow of, what to me seems and inevitable change, will damage the UK.
I just hope that people will wake up soon and realise its time to join up.
Anyway that just my 10 Euros worth,

Rain

[Montana]

the euro, pronounced [juro] not [evro] or [eouro],
is acording 2 me tne next step 2 a united europe (that's a bad thing)
the first step was the joining the EC/EU. the second step signing the maastricht deal, the third giving up your currency and having euro as the currency. now you wondering what's the fourth step
well i don't know acctualy but i think it's a deal that will make the members of the EU will join 2gether and become USE (united states of europe), what will you think about that?

[Predatorsfan2000]

Hey, at least it'd be easier to make a damn map.

[c2R]

I love the idea of the Euro - I can drive all over Europe and use the same money, no paying comission to change all the time. It also makes sense for a single market, without barriers to movement or trade to have one currency.

Of course the UK hasn't joined yet, but I don't think this is really due to Xenophobia, more to do with the economic conditions not being quite right yet - the UK's business cycle is not in synch with that of mainland Europe, although steps (such as the massive reduction in interest rates over the last ten years) are being taken.

Obviously there are many people in the UK who are ignorant of the benefits that the Euro will bring (many firms simply wont invest in the UK while they are forced to carry out currency transactions), others are simply blinded by either their love of their country, or hatred of foreigners.

Hell, even Red Ken (mayor of London) idiot that the guy is, understands completely that for London to carry on competing against Frankfurt and other world financial centers we need the Euro here too.

[ampburner]

I'm from Holland, and I support the euro, from an economical perspectriv i'm convinced it's a good idea...however...

If you're gonna design a currency, to be used by 300 milion ppl... why make the bills so damn UGLY! not to mention small . God I loved the Dutch money You don't know what you've got till it's gone I guess

[Bilbo Baggins]

[rant]The "Little Englander" mentality does not apply at all to the majority of the population of this country. If you go on believing that about the English people, then you are frankly rascist and bigoted.[/rant]

*ahem*

I personally am pretty much in favour of the Euro. I think that in order to bring the Euro down, as some have suggested, it would take another crash of Wall Street proportions. I think that although the world economy is slowing down (as it enevitably does), it will not slow down enough to bring a huge recession as some have feared, and so the Euro will remain safe.
From a social point of view, then all that is happening is the closer uniting of the people of the EU, as in 1991, when the Maastricht Treaty was signed, all nationals of EU countries also became EU citizens, and so the Euro (which was also begun at this point in time) is another way of cementing this.
Politically, i do not think that we will ever go the full length and become one gigantic state of Europe, or even become as Federal as the USA is. There are too many cultural and political divisions within Europe for this to happen. The Euro is simply a way of following the ideals of the founding fathers of the ECSC, whcih was to economocically unite Europe at least (or at that time France and Germany).

The Euro is a good thing, and if TB holds a referendum (rather than sneaking it in through the backdoor like he does with most things), then I am likely to vote in favour for the Euro.

[piesupreme]

my opinion of the euro. a waste of time.

IMO, i hate europe. the only thing they give us good is cheap cd's, duty free stuff and porn. and the last thing i would want is for england to be closer to europe.

i mean, they don't even speak english.

[Bilbo Baggins]

However, Little Englanders do remain

I like Europe. I would like to be part of a socially closer europe, one where common aims for the common person is closer together.

As it stands, europe favours big business and fatcats. It is still striving forward solely for business, and those who can get a share of the market place. As more and more businesses try to go into Europe, the smaller ones will be destroyed, and good workers will lose their jobs. Until it is recognised that the EU is being run by fatcats for fatcats, then it will stink. I would like to hope tha the Euro is a move in the opposite direction, towards greater unity between the citizens. I am doubtful though.

[Xerxes]

See now that is funny you say that- any republican from this side of the pond would say that the EU is run by "one-world" socialists- a very far cry from corporate fat cats.

[iomegajaz]

1. Euro - good thing.
2. Mamiya - good thing. It's been a while..
3. AmpBurmer - good thing. See above.



tersejaz (I'm at work)

[s1138]

the vatican is releasing euros? i saw it on ebay

between this and the stupid state quarters, im gonna be a busy collector

[Xerxes]

I want a Nazi One!