Old 14th January 2007, 15:41   #1
dlinkwit27
has no CT
(Forum King)
 
dlinkwit27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 13,235
Send a message via ICQ to dlinkwit27 Send a message via AIM to dlinkwit27 Send a message via Yahoo to dlinkwit27
Why rap can never be as good as Rock

I was listening to the radio yesterday, and then watched the VH1 special "Heavy, The History of Metal," and it donned on me why rap is so bad, and why it will never be as good as Rock and Metal. The reason, its artists.

All rap artists are the same. They all are from poor walks of life and bank on the whole "rose from the streets" story to get to the top. When they do, that is all they talk about, or are told by the producers to talk about. By their fault or not, rap artists are just not articulate, and thus, all their songs, about all the same things, are the same. Rap artists are truly entertainers, but they are also only entertainers.

They are able to fill that little bit of curiosity of white America. They are the modern day carneys. We show interest in their bearded lady-esq albums for a year or two, then toss them by the wayside when the next show of the two headed dog comes by. Rinse, repeat. Not to mention that "hip hop" has become so watered down with the likes of Gwen Stefani and Nelly Fertado(sp) that it is hard to distinguish it from bubble-gum pop.

Rock artists, are different. Not only do those artists come from very different walks of life, but personal interviews demonstrate how much more articulate they are, and how much more thought process goes into their music. Granted there are exceptions (on both sides) but how many rap "artists" can speak intelligently?

The last major comment on the political stage by a rapper was Nas's scholarly "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Watch the congresional hearings and listen to Dee Snyder of (Twisted Sister) argue with the lawmakers of our nation. Watch the making of Metallica's (a band I am not a big fan of, by the way) and hear James Hetfield ponder over the music and his family, and how he discusses the trials and tribulations of his past.

Listen to Shawn Chrahan, the clown from Slipknot, a band that has a sound that would make your sisters cry, with conviction about his family and the band, without mentioning how much "bling" or "hoes" they have.

In short, "rap" and "hip-hop" has become as pre-packaged and predictable as the boy bands of the 90's. Heck, now they are using the boy band members as hip-hop stars (see Justin Timberlake). Meanwhile, rock stays true with its unique individuals, their points of view, and sound.
dlinkwit27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2007, 16:05   #2
gaekwad2
Foorum King
 
gaekwad2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: bar2000
Posts: 11,424
Not articulate? Listen to Chuck D or KRS One.

The key here is, it has become a modern minstrel show.
It wasn't always like that, and it doesn't have to remain that way either.
gaekwad2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2007, 16:58   #3
squakMix
wwwyzzerdd
(Forum King)
 
squakMix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,458
Deltron 3030
squakMix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2007, 21:19   #4
skryingbreath
Post initializing...
 
skryingbreath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,065
Mainstream rock sucks ass too. /points to Metallica. (Real in-depth lyrical concepts/constructs they have now, huh?)

While I agree with most of your points, there is intelligent rap. Fuck, Eminem is intelligent. You just need to get passed his bullshit mainstream songs and into his older stuff with more substance. As with most artists.

What I find hilarious is, rappers talk about being thug in one song, and then in the next they talk about having twenties, fourties, and big-screen tvs. Real thuggin'.

Though, it's comical that you bring up Slipknot, being the most typecast industrial band out there.

"Hey guys, what should we do for our next metal song?"
"POWER CHORDS AND TALK ABOUT SUICIDE AND DARK THINGS LOL"
"Genius."

Fuck Hot Topic.
skryingbreath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2007, 23:16   #5
gaekwad2
Foorum King
 
gaekwad2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: bar2000
Posts: 11,424
Nothing personal, but

may the ghost of Jhonn Balance haunt your dreams for calling Slipknot industrial.
gaekwad2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2007, 17:43   #6
k_rock923
\m/
(Forum King)
 
k_rock923's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: /bin/bash
Posts: 7,850
Send a message via AIM to k_rock923
/Defends Metallica's older catalog, which had some of the most politically driven lyrics I've read.

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
k_rock923 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2007, 07:26   #7
Omega X
Forum King
 
Omega X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: A Parallel Dimension
Posts: 2,252
Send a message via AIM to Omega X Send a message via Yahoo to Omega X
Quote:
Originally posted by gaekwad2
The key here is, it has become a modern minstrel show.
It wasn't always like that, and it doesn't have to remain that way either.
/agree
Omega X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2007, 15:56   #8
mysterious_w
Forum King
 
mysterious_w's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Good ol' Britain
Posts: 2,750
/me is listening to: Run DMC - Its Tricky [03:03] Good eh?

It is good. I've actually been listening to more hip-hop these days, once I've found out that there is some good non-wanksta stuff like Rakim and such.




mysterious_w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2007, 20:51   #9
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
I always thought Rage Against the Machine had some intelligent lyrics, but are they metal or rap...?

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2007, 22:46   #10
gaekwad2
Foorum King
 
gaekwad2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: bar2000
Posts: 11,424
Alternative Rock
gaekwad2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2007, 22:58   #11
Schmeet
Major Dude
 
Schmeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The timid west
Posts: 1,444
I heard they were reforming...
Schmeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2007, 11:31   #12
MidnightViper88
Made In The USA
(Forum King)
 
MidnightViper88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The 502
Posts: 9,100
Send a message via AIM to MidnightViper88 Send a message via Yahoo to MidnightViper88
More like a reunion...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
MidnightViper88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd February 2007, 17:51   #13
skryingbreath
Post initializing...
 
skryingbreath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,065
Not intelligent?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFBF_Fa04_Y
I really enjoyed it, even being Christian.
skryingbreath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2007, 05:52   #14
mrd00d
Banned
 
mrd00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 278
Send a message via Yahoo to mrd00d
skrybaby, that was a bad-ass video. I normally don't like rap...but that guys lyrics are 'off the hook, g'.

I left the following comment for him...


well written, my homey...I know you don't owe me, but, I still believe in a god, I don't care what 'sex' he or she might be, don't matter the skin that wise old woman or man is in, I only care that the god I think is real is a god of good and that your heart and your life be judged in some sort of heavenly court, maybe there is nothing after the off but is it bad to live life thinkin you might end up payin' a price for if you're naughty or nice? NO - say I need a woobie blanket to deal with death and I'll tell you I embrace the day that I find out, who's right and who's wrong, this fight is too long to give up without at least asking questions and saying a prayer, go ahead and start it out with 'whoever's out there, just know that I care' because the mind is a thing we can't begin to understand so don't be so full of yourself to think that you can



---try to rap it out skryingbreath, I don't mind if you 'sample' some of my lyrics, dawg.

The one thing I hate about rap, besides the 'bitches and hos' and voilence and hate and what not, is the really really shitty re-makes of some song that wasn't that good in the first place. Like I wanna hear the shit that was dead 15 years ago come back with really crappy rap hucked in! I hate that..

Sometimes the beat is catchy and the re-mix is decent but the damned lyrics...come on.

Who sings that song 'take a look at my girlfriend, she's the only one I got' - 'not much of a girlfriend, never seem to get a lot'. It's driving me crazy...yeah, short trip, I know.
mrd00d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2007, 18:03   #15
luck4mike
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4
although I see where you are coming from, and can understand your frustration... MAINSTREAM hip hop is what I believe you are talking about... the underground still has a lot to offer
luck4mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2007, 18:06   #16
skryingbreath
Post initializing...
 
skryingbreath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,065
Quote:
Originally posted by mrd00d
skrybaby,
Don't damage my name. No, I'm not joking.
skryingbreath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2007, 04:05   #17
mrd00d
Banned
 
mrd00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 278
Send a message via Yahoo to mrd00d
I rest my case. Isn't your reply a bit off topic? What happened to the 'rap isn't as good as rock' part of this conversation? Your only reply is to say I can't make up a nickname for you?

You listen to a lot of heavy metal music, right?
mrd00d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2007, 04:07   #18
ElChevelle
Moderator Alumni
 
ElChevelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: the MANCANNON!
Posts: 22,436
You're done.
ElChevelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2007, 20:59   #19
PBD
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1
Long live grunge scene 90'.
The bands as Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Smashing pumpkins... Golden years of alternative rock.
Rap can never compare to rock in any segment.Never!
PBD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2007, 21:03   #20
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
Nice first post. You're not mrd00d are you?

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2007, 00:05   #21
shakey_snake
Forum Domo
 
shakey_snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Everyone, get over here for the picture!
Posts: 4,313
Quote:
Originally posted by PBD
Long live grunge scene 90'.
The bands as Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Smashing pumpkins... Golden years of alternative rock.
the golden age of "alternative rock" was the 80's and very early 90's
the "grunge scene" was just the mainstream slop that capitalized on what New Order, My Bloody Valentine, Echo and the Bunnymen, Pixies, et al started.


elevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladylevitateme
shakey_snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2007, 16:05   #22
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
the golden age of "alternative rock" was the 80's and very early 90's
the "grunge scene" was just the mainstream slop that capitalized on what New Order, My Bloody Valentine, Echo and the Bunnymen, Pixies, et al started.
quoted for truth - watch VH1 Classic's "The Alternative" (Sunday @ 11p.m. Eastern Time) and you'll see what real 'alternative' is.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say that the bands that PBD listed are bad; they just weren't really an 'alternative' to anything, since they were pretty much the mainstream music of their time.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2007, 06:16   #23
bitchtow
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 40
You missed one important point, rock will always be better because the rock muso's play their instruments and write their music, and then have to play that shit live.

Whereas if a rapper actually writes his own music (hahahaha, or the rap producer, which is more likely), it's done on computer, and never altered again until someone remixes it. They don't have to play it live, just sing to it.

This means they are unlikely to grow, develop their style, etc. just rap over different beats (their rapping obviously evolves). Whereas rockers, they evolve, generally constantly, adding and removing elements, until they find their niche (and in the case of the 80s thrash bands, throw it away after they've found it).

When was the last time you saw a rapper change their style so dramatically that they were called sell out by their core fan base (if anyone says eminem, I'll slap em, he's still rapping, it's just light and silly now, not dark like in the 'old days'). And I say style, I have never seen a rapper give up rap and try ballads.
bitchtow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2007, 11:46   #24
gaekwad2
Foorum King
 
gaekwad2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: bar2000
Posts: 11,424
Off the top of my head:
sell out - Nas
ballads - LL Cool J, Wyclef Jean
singing - Everlast
want more?

Besides, saying rappers only evolve by abandoning rap is like demanding all rockers make at least one IDM or Free Jazz album before they can be taken seriously.

enjoy ur prejudice
gaekwad2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2007, 16:38   #25
skryingbreath
Post initializing...
 
skryingbreath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,065
Quote:
Originally posted by bitchtow
This means they are unlikely to grow, develop their style, etc. just rap over different beats (their rapping obviously evolves).
Listen to Bone Thugs 'N' Harmony's early album, Creepin' On Ah, Come Up and then listen to BTNHRessurection.

Would you like your words served with hot sauce or guacamole?
skryingbreath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2007, 18:49   #26
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
the golden age of "alternative rock" was the 80's and very early 90's
the "grunge scene" was just the mainstream slop that capitalized on what New Order, My Bloody Valentine, Echo and the Bunnymen, Pixies, et al started.
I think you'll find that Soundgarden and Pearl Jam in particular were just as significant musically as the music they built on, just as the artists you name were as significant as the music they built on.

Oh, and on-topic I think we've established that rock can be as good as rap and that rap can be as good as rock. Hurrah and so on.

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2007, 23:00   #27
bitchtow
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 40
Yeah, it's obvious the rockers won't convince the rappers, or vice versa, but one thing I'm sure most of us can agree on, most of the mainstream rap/rock hybrids, were just plain bad, on both parts.
bitchtow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2007, 00:36   #28
skryingbreath
Post initializing...
 
skryingbreath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,065
I listen to both Metal and Rap, I just don't think comparing one to another is fair. It'd be like comparing Metal to Rap...oh wait, I mean it'd be like comparing Roman Classical to Jazz.

Rock/Rap hybrids are good when done well. Linkin Park (despite their emo lyrics), RATM, Static-X, Deftones, the list goes on. Hell, even Beastie Boys rocked the shit back in the day.
skryingbreath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2007, 08:33   #29
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Quote:
Originally posted by skryingbreath
Rock/Rap hybrids are good when done well. Linkin Park (despite their emo lyrics), RATM, Static-X, Deftones, the list goes on. Hell, even Beastie Boys rocked the shit back in the day.
I agree with this, although Deftones have been rubbish for a while. When done well the whole sort of genre-mashing thing can be good. RATM are probably the best example of those ones, driven mostly by Morello's genuinely-fresh guitar techniques.

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2007, 07:26   #30
bitchtow
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 40
I wouldn't have put deftones or static-x in a rock/rap hybrid (not that ive heard any of their new stuff, just the shit around 2000).
Linkin park, I cant really comment on the rapping, but mediocre in the rock department.
RATM, well yeah, they weren't the greatest band, but they did have a strangely catchy, addictive and unique sound, who doesn't like Killing in the name of?
The Beastie Boys were a joke though, just like Split Enz, tried to pull of punk, failed miserably and moved in the opposite direction, sounding cheesy more than anything else.
Oh, you forgot Cyprus Hill.
The keyword though was 'most', if i said most of the popular metal bands in the late 80's were thrash bands, sure you could point at priest, maiden, sabbath being extremely popular, but would it change the truth of my statement?
bitchtow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2007, 09:03   #31
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Quote:
Originally posted by bitchtow
I wouldn't have put deftones or static-x in a rock/rap hybrid (not that ive heard any of their new stuff, just the shit around 2000).
Static X are harder to justify (they're more rap-inspired than anything), but Deftones have always been a rap-metal band. Just because Chino Moreno doesn't rap all the time doesn't really change that. And honestly, I've not really listened to much beyond "Around The Fur".

Listen to the breakdown bit in "7 Words" for example.

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2007, 17:49   #32
skryingbreath
Post initializing...
 
skryingbreath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,065
Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
Listen to the breakdown bit in "7 Words" for example.
Such an epic part

Also, Headup.

/getshiscoat
skryingbreath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2007, 10:26   #33
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Quote:
Originally posted by skryingbreath
Such an epic part

Also, Headup.

/getshiscoat
Another great one (although it's not a Deftones song) is "Pain" by Soulfly. I love the bit that the singer from Will Haven does in that.

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > Music O'Rama

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump