Here are all the APEs... - Page 3

TomyLobo · 3rd April 2005, 23:56

no need to search... just spell my name right

http://tomylobo.deviantart.com

beeferoni · 4th April 2005, 03:29

oh my god...*feels like a complete idiot* Thanks.

jheriko · 4th April 2005, 04:58

read the beginning of the thread... and this whole thing looks quite funny... :P

seriosuly. clean it up some and start a new thread when it looks okay. maybe test it out in the recycle bin forum

^..^ · 4th April 2005, 14:22

beeferoni, do you have all information now (who made the ape, how is it called, what does it do...)?

When you make that thread, you should add a hint to your first post, to inform people not to reply (when you're finished you can remove it again).

Besides, i saw there are less than 40 ape's in that list, so they will still fit on one page if posted sperately!

beeferoni · 4th April 2005, 17:55

Ok first off, no I don't have all the info needed. Nothing has changed. How can I get information on an ape that I CAN'T see?
(ifs.ape for instance) and eeltrens yes I know it is a widely used ape, but I don't know what it's called in the editor, I have looked many many times.

If I have bitten off more than I can chew, I apologize for not knowing that. I will eventually get a list of some sort done I suppose, but without help it will still be incomplete, for reasons I already stated. I don't mean I just can't see ifs.ape, I mean it CRASHES my winamp right away, so there is NO way I can gather that info. I thank you all for the help already given, but...

I will start again and get as much done as is POSSIBLE. I will start a new thread with the final list when I get done with it.

TomyLobo · 4th April 2005, 18:11

eeltrans is Misc/AVSTrans Automation, as the .txt file that should come with it says
maybe i should make an expression help...

eheiney · 4th April 2005, 18:12

Quote:

Originally posted by beeferoni
Ok first off, no I don't have all the info needed. Nothing has changed. How can I get information on an ape that I CAN'T see? (ifs.ape for instance)

If you do a simple google search for ifs.ape you will come up with three links to choose from. By selecting the last one, you will be taken here. You can download a small collection of apes, including ifs.ape (I know you already have it, but you may be able to override it and try again). It also had some screenshots of the ape to give a vague idea. Personally, I don't think it's even worth including but you may like to and if so, here's where you can find all the information on it.

beeferoni · 4th April 2005, 19:32

Thanks, TomyLobo,(I only got eeltrans through a downloaded pack, so I didn't get the txt file.) and denkensiefursic. (I did a search for ifs.ape but only on Yahoo. I hate Google, but I guess I should have tried it.)

Ok, It won't take me as long as I thought to make the final. I am sorry I've been such a whiner through this. (Not to make excuses, but I am badly sick.) You're right, jheriko, if you look at the original post to this thread, it does look a little ridiculous. Let this be a lesson in humility to us all.

I will get that new thread up ASAP

beeferoni · 4th April 2005, 20:14

My comp will not let me go there. I tried 20 times each with the same result:

'The operation timed out when attempting to contact www.itsdarkhere.com'

So please if you can give me the info you glommed from it. (or I will just leave the info out of ifs.ape)

BTW, when I do the new thread, should I include the description in the post above the attatched zip, or should I include a txt file in the zips, or both?

^..^ · 4th April 2005, 21:09

i think both would be good (if it's not too much work for you). For the missing information: you should give us a complete list of which informations you don't have already.

beeferoni · 4th April 2005, 21:33

Will do, ^..^

And no, putting both descriptions in is not too much work.

^..^ · 4th April 2005, 21:39

ok, cause the info is important to know what you are downloading actually. and provided that the 'user' of that upcoming service stores the ape-zips he dl's on his hd, he'll always be able to look up what a specific ape does.

eheiney · 5th April 2005, 01:22

Quote:

Originally posted by beeferoni
My comp will not let me go there. I tried 20 times each with the same result: 'The operation timed out when attempting to contact www.itsdarkhere.com

Just click here.

Or...

Quote:

So please if you can give me the info you glommed from it.

Ifs.ape, or 'Iterated Function System' Ape is "based on code from Massimino Pascal's xscreenlock/xscreensaver hack."

Here are a couple screenshots:

Hope this helps as this is really all that the website gives.

TomyLobo · 5th April 2005, 03:06

hehe i did that in pure AVS a while ago
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/7769089/

eww this flame.ape's source code is soo sucky
all C++ not a bit of MMX
if it wasnt completely useless, i could double it's speed

eheiney · 5th April 2005, 05:31

Quote:

Originally posted by TomyLobo
hehe i did that in pure AVS a while ago
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/7769089/

eww this flame.ape's source code is soo sucky
all C++ not a bit of MMX
if it wasnt completely useless, i could double it's speed

Which is why, beeferoni, you should really reconsider including some of these apes. A lot of these outdated apes can and have already been recreated using standard AVS features.
Tomy just gave a great example of this in comparison to ifs.ape. 3d.ape is pretty constricted. You can change the color, but besides that it's quite useless. Conway.ape could be created using the rand function, Tuggummi's "Different Load" comes to mind. Flame.ape, flock.ape, and fyrewurx.ape could all easily be created using different effects.
I know it sounds discouraging, but don't listen to me; it's your thread and you can do what you want with it.

beeferoni · 5th April 2005, 05:31

Thank you guys very much. I did finally get that site to come up (this comp is piece of shit), so I have all the info on that stuff. But still I appreciate it.

Ok, a list of info I need:

FrameRateLimiter.ape author

triangle.ape author (I know it's someone I know well but I've forgotten!)

tv.ape author

vf2.ape VisFrac works perfectly for me. But for some reason, VisFrac2 will not appear in a preset, although it's in the editor list. When i click it, nothing happens. Even when I removed visfrac1 from the avs folder, same problem. So any info on this will be needed. I assume it's the same author as the first, and basically the same as the first (except improved?) but I can't know for sure.

vjcontrol.ape author and description (I have not the foggiest notion what the hell this does!)

and does anyone know which avi renderer needs the 'outgrab.dll' file to go with it? It came with it in the zip
from the old crappy thread, but I have long since deleted the zip. So if nobody knows offhand, let me know and I will surf through that mess again to find it.

That's all I need!!!
We're almost done!

eheiney · 5th April 2005, 05:37

triangle.ape author - I'll let Tomy answer this one. Hint, hint. Wink, wink.

I'm not too sure either about the rest.

beeferoni · 5th April 2005, 05:43

Ah, I should have known. Sorry, TomyLobo

oh, and denkensiefursic this was origianlly not meant to be a resource of 'useful' or 'widely used' apes. It is just meant to be a resource of apes period. If you want, give me a list of apes which are definetly outmoded, and I will include it in the description as a caveat emptor.

^..^ · 5th April 2005, 09:58

framerate limiter was made by goebish and outgrab.dll belongs to avsgrabber (made by unconed).

[Ishan] · 5th April 2005, 11:39

shit. Tomy you seriously need some publicity

beeferoni · 5th April 2005, 15:57

Great! Thanks... now what about the others?

3d.ape author

tv.ape author

visfrac 2 - any info

and please explain to me what vj control does? (and who wrote it)

^..^ · 5th April 2005, 16:55

as far as i remember correctly vjcontrol was made by unconed, but i didn't exactly understand how it works. it's for vj'ing purposes anyway.

the other apes are completely unknown to me.

UnConeD · 5th April 2005, 19:09

No permission was given for redistributing my APEs here. Poof.

Wait until you have software you made spread out over a gazillion moronic sites all over the web, without the original disclaimers and no method of removing it. You'll just /love/ receiving mail about it 6 years afterwards from wankers who expect commercial-grade support from you.

beeferoni · 5th April 2005, 20:00

So do you want us to leave out your apes, UnConeD? Damn that would almost make the whole list pointless. (You made a third of the apes I have!) How about if I officially asked for your permission here and included a disclaimer with each of your apes about not asking for technical support? Which I planned on doing anyway. Sorry if I presumed too much. I didn't see it as distributing, (I guess that's exactly what it is, though.) I see what you mean about idiots who would expect more than they should.

TomyLobo · 5th April 2005, 20:26

he said you can list them but not redistribute them

most of his apes are included in winamp anyway, so you dont need to upload them

^..^ · 5th April 2005, 20:59

talking about unconeds apes anyways: is there no thread/info about vjcontrol.ape here? cause searching brings up nothing bout it...

beeferoni · 5th April 2005, 21:05

I couldn't find anything on it, but if it's for vj-ing (duh!)
I guess that's enough to describe it somewhat. (?)

If nobody knows the other ones, I'll just leave out visfrac2; I'm sure it can't be much different from the first.
And tv.ape and 3d.ape just won't have authors listed. Still a pretty complete listing. I'll give this 1 or 2 more days before I start zipping files and make the new thread.

^..^ · 5th April 2005, 21:26

what about leaving out the author's names? that way none of these gets annoying support requests!

UnConeD · 5th April 2005, 22:35

For vjcontrol, see:
http://www.acko.net/art/avs

But if you're not a VJ, it's not useful at all.

^..^ · 5th April 2005, 22:46

thanks! i was just curios how it works but the example preset explains it pretty good.
unfortunately i'm not a vj, but i guess it's quite fun, so hopefully i can use it some time (doesn't anybody need someone for vj'ing on a party or so?)

beeferoni · 5th April 2005, 23:00

I spent a little bit of time getting author names, but I guess If we want to avoid those authors getting mail about it (why anyone would expect support on 6 or even 3 year old software is beyond me) I will leave them out.

^..^ · 5th April 2005, 23:09

erm.. actually it was just a joke...

well, to me it's all the same...

[Ishan] · 6th April 2005, 11:29

cant you post the link of UCD's Ape's instead?

beeferoni · 6th April 2005, 16:49

Is it all right UnConeD if we list your apes (not uploadable) with a link to acko.net?

UnConeD · 6th April 2005, 18:07

Link as much as you want... but please link to the APE page, not to the .zip files directly.

jheriko · 7th April 2005, 06:07

it might be better if you link globbmgr to my deviant art site or something... i intend to update it

beeferoni · 7th April 2005, 06:12

Ok, I can do that, jheriko. You caught me just in time, I was zipping them now.

And TomyLobo, Even though your apes will be in zips in the new thread, I will include a link to your deviant site, if that's all right. (Yes, I will spell it correctly!)

beeferoni · 7th April 2005, 20:10

Ok, I will start the new thread in a couple of hours. Does anyone have any final advice? (Besides posting "DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD"). I have all my files laid out nice and neat, everything accounted for, so it should go off without a hitch.

^..^ · 7th April 2005, 21:24

hmm, good luck!

btw in which part of the AVS forum are you going to post it? Cause there already are four stickies in the main-forum..
although i don't quite know where it should belong instead. perhaps into the wishlist, so that you can add new ones from time to time (eg. 'solution-apes' to problems posted in the wishlist or other usefull new stuff)?

/edit: never mind we can still ask a mod to move it afterwards...

TomyLobo · 7th April 2005, 23:26

heh you listed normalise.ape, that one is pretty useless :P
i mainly use it for testing purposes

Quote:

filename: buffer.ape
appears in: Misc. as 'Buffer blend'
Allows you to blend buffers. Only blends absolute values (for now).
Made by TomyLobo

slightly wrong... use this:

Allows you to blend buffers with each other or the current image. has all of the AVS blending modes except every other pixel/line and adjustable. additionally supports a new blending mode, absolute difference, which allows for some cool effects

3rd April 2005, 23:56	#81
TomyLobo Major Dude Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 580	no need to search... just spell my name right http://tomylobo.deviantart.com If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic.

4th April 2005, 03:29	#82
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	oh my god...feels like a complete idiot Thanks. 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan

4th April 2005, 04:58	#83
jheriko Forum King Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: a twist in the fabric of space Posts: 2,150	read the beginning of the thread... and this whole thing looks quite funny... :P seriosuly. clean it up some and start a new thread when it looks okay. maybe test it out in the recycle bin forum -- Jheriko 'Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers'

4th April 2005, 17:55	#85
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	Ok first off, no I don't have all the info needed. Nothing has changed. How can I get information on an ape that I CAN'T see? (ifs.ape for instance) and eeltrens yes I know it is a widely used ape, but I don't know what it's called in the editor, I have looked many many times. If I have bitten off more than I can chew, I apologize for not knowing that. I will eventually get a list of some sort done I suppose, but without help it will still be incomplete, for reasons I already stated. I don't mean I just can't see ifs.ape, I mean it CRASHES my winamp right away, so there is NO way I can gather that info. I thank you all for the help already given, but... I will start again and get as much done as is POSSIBLE. I will start a new thread with the final list when I get done with it. 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan Last edited by beeferoni; 4th April 2005 at 18:11.

4th April 2005, 18:11	#86
TomyLobo Major Dude Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 580	eeltrans is Misc/AVSTrans Automation, as the .txt file that should come with it says maybe i should make an expression help... If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic.

4th April 2005, 14:22	#84
^..^ Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: There Posts: 1,002	beeferoni, do you have all information now (who made the ape, how is it called, what does it do...)? When you make that thread, you should add a hint to your first post, to inform people not to reply (when you're finished you can remove it again). Besides, i saw there are less than 40 ape's in that list, so they will still fit on one page if posted sperately!

4th April 2005, 19:32	#88
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	Thanks, TomyLobo,(I only got eeltrans through a downloaded pack, so I didn't get the txt file.) and denkensiefursic. (I did a search for ifs.ape but only on Yahoo. I hate Google, but I guess I should have tried it.) Ok, It won't take me as long as I thought to make the final. I am sorry I've been such a whiner through this. (Not to make excuses, but I am badly sick.) You're right, jheriko, if you look at the original post to this thread, it does look a little ridiculous. Let this be a lesson in humility to us all. I will get that new thread up ASAP 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan

4th April 2005, 20:14	#89
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	My comp will not let me go there. I tried 20 times each with the same result: 'The operation timed out when attempting to contact www.itsdarkhere.com' So please if you can give me the info you glommed from it. (or I will just leave the info out of ifs.ape) BTW, when I do the new thread, should I include the description in the post above the attatched zip, or should I include a txt file in the zips, or both? 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan Last edited by beeferoni; 4th April 2005 at 20:42.

4th April 2005, 21:09	#90
^..^ Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: There Posts: 1,002	i think both would be good (if it's not too much work for you). For the missing information: you should give us a complete list of which informations you don't have already.

4th April 2005, 21:33	#91
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	Will do, ^..^ And no, putting both descriptions in is not too much work. 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan

4th April 2005, 21:39	#92
^..^ Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: There Posts: 1,002	ok, cause the info is important to know what you are downloading actually. and provided that the 'user' of that upcoming service stores the ape-zips he dl's on his hd, he'll always be able to look up what a specific ape does.

5th April 2005, 03:06	#94
TomyLobo Major Dude Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 580	hehe i did that in pure AVS a while ago http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/7769089/ eww this flame.ape's source code is soo sucky all C++ not a bit of MMX if it wasnt completely useless, i could double it's speed If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic.

5th April 2005, 05:31	#96
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	Thank you guys very much. I did finally get that site to come up (this comp is piece of shit), so I have all the info on that stuff. But still I appreciate it. Ok, a list of info I need: FrameRateLimiter.ape author triangle.ape author (I know it's someone I know well but I've forgotten!) tv.ape author vf2.ape VisFrac works perfectly for me. But for some reason, VisFrac2 will not appear in a preset, although it's in the editor list. When i click it, nothing happens. Even when I removed visfrac1 from the avs folder, same problem. So any info on this will be needed. I assume it's the same author as the first, and basically the same as the first (except improved?) but I can't know for sure. vjcontrol.ape author and description (I have not the foggiest notion what the hell this does!) and does anyone know which avi renderer needs the 'outgrab.dll' file to go with it? It came with it in the zip from the old crappy thread, but I have long since deleted the zip. So if nobody knows offhand, let me know and I will surf through that mess again to find it. That's all I need!!! We're almost done! 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan

5th April 2005, 05:37	#97
eheiney und keine Eier! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MI, USA Posts: 1,374	triangle.ape author - I'll let Tomy answer this one. Hint, hint. Wink, wink. I'm not too sure either about the rest. Spiral out, my friend. You will find your way back to yourself, we all will. I'll be waiting, and shall see you on the other side...

5th April 2005, 05:43	#98
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	Ah, I should have known. Sorry, TomyLobo oh, and denkensiefursic this was origianlly not meant to be a resource of 'useful' or 'widely used' apes. It is just meant to be a resource of apes period. If you want, give me a list of apes which are definetly outmoded, and I will include it in the description as a caveat emptor. 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan

5th April 2005, 09:58	#99
^..^ Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: There Posts: 1,002	framerate limiter was made by goebish and outgrab.dll belongs to avsgrabber (made by unconed).

5th April 2005, 11:39	#100
[Ishan] Major Dude Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: India Posts: 1,156	shit. Tomy you seriously need some publicity Amateur AVS'er. All over again. Last AVS Pack : Resurgence

5th April 2005, 15:57	#101
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	Great! Thanks... now what about the others? 3d.ape author tv.ape author visfrac 2 - any info and please explain to me what vj control does? (and who wrote it) 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan

5th April 2005, 16:55	#102
^..^ Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: There Posts: 1,002	as far as i remember correctly vjcontrol was made by unconed, but i didn't exactly understand how it works. it's for vj'ing purposes anyway. the other apes are completely unknown to me.

5th April 2005, 19:09	#103
UnConeD Whacked Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 2,104	No permission was given for redistributing my APEs here. Poof. Wait until you have software you made spread out over a gazillion moronic sites all over the web, without the original disclaimers and no method of removing it. You'll just /love/ receiving mail about it 6 years afterwards from wankers who expect commercial-grade support from you.

5th April 2005, 20:00	#104
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	So do you want us to leave out your apes, UnConeD? Damn that would almost make the whole list pointless. (You made a third of the apes I have!) How about if I officially asked for your permission here and included a disclaimer with each of your apes about not asking for technical support? Which I planned on doing anyway. Sorry if I presumed too much. I didn't see it as distributing, (I guess that's exactly what it is, though.) I see what you mean about idiots who would expect more than they should. 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan

5th April 2005, 20:26	#105
TomyLobo Major Dude Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 580	he said you can list them but not redistribute them most of his apes are included in winamp anyway, so you dont need to upload them If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic.

5th April 2005, 20:59	#106
^..^ Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: There Posts: 1,002	talking about unconeds apes anyways: is there no thread/info about vjcontrol.ape here? cause searching brings up nothing bout it...

5th April 2005, 21:05	#107
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	I couldn't find anything on it, but if it's for vj-ing (duh!) I guess that's enough to describe it somewhat. (?) If nobody knows the other ones, I'll just leave out visfrac2; I'm sure it can't be much different from the first. And tv.ape and 3d.ape just won't have authors listed. Still a pretty complete listing. I'll give this 1 or 2 more days before I start zipping files and make the new thread. 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan

5th April 2005, 21:26	#108
^..^ Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: There Posts: 1,002	what about leaving out the author's names? that way none of these gets annoying support requests!

5th April 2005, 22:35	#109
UnConeD Whacked Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 2,104	For vjcontrol, see: http://www.acko.net/art/avs But if you're not a VJ, it's not useful at all.

5th April 2005, 22:46	#110
^..^ Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: There Posts: 1,002	thanks! i was just curios how it works but the example preset explains it pretty good. unfortunately i'm not a vj, but i guess it's quite fun, so hopefully i can use it some time (doesn't anybody need someone for vj'ing on a party or so?)

5th April 2005, 23:00	#111
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	I spent a little bit of time getting author names, but I guess If we want to avoid those authors getting mail about it (why anyone would expect support on 6 or even 3 year old software is beyond me) I will leave them out. 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan

5th April 2005, 23:09	#112
^..^ Major Dude Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: There Posts: 1,002	erm.. actually it was just a joke... well, to me it's all the same...

6th April 2005, 11:29	#113
[Ishan] Major Dude Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: India Posts: 1,156	cant you post the link of UCD's Ape's instead? Amateur AVS'er. All over again. Last AVS Pack : Resurgence

6th April 2005, 16:49	#114
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	Is it all right UnConeD if we list your apes (not uploadable) with a link to acko.net? 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan

6th April 2005, 18:07	#115
UnConeD Whacked Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 2,104	Link as much as you want... but please link to the APE page, not to the .zip files directly.

7th April 2005, 06:07	#116
jheriko Forum King Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: a twist in the fabric of space Posts: 2,150	it might be better if you link globbmgr to my deviant art site or something... i intend to update it -- Jheriko 'Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers'

7th April 2005, 06:12	#117
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	Ok, I can do that, jheriko. You caught me just in time, I was zipping them now. And TomyLobo, Even though your apes will be in zips in the new thread, I will include a link to your deviant site, if that's all right. (Yes, I will spell it correctly!) 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan Last edited by beeferoni; 7th April 2005 at 06:50.

7th April 2005, 20:10	#118
beeferoni Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around the way Posts: 273	Ok, I will start the new thread in a couple of hours. Does anyone have any final advice? (Besides posting "DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD"). I have all my files laid out nice and neat, everything accounted for, so it should go off without a hitch. 'A googolplex is precisely as far from infinity as is the number 1...no matter what number you have in mind, infinity is larger.' -Carl Sagan